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Quote# 89987

[African Americans must] understand that even while in the throes of slavery, their lives as Americans are likely much better than they ever would have enjoyed living in sub-Saharan Africa.

...

Knowing what we know today about life on the African continent, would an existence spent in slavery have been any crueler than a life spent in sub-Saharan Africa?

Jon Hubbard, Arktimes.com 34 Comments [10/9/2012 3:49:34 AM]
Fundie Index: 22
WTF?! || meh
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#1456451
New Face of Rove

Yeah, because living in an air-conditioned apartment in Nairobi or Lagos is DEFINATELY worse than being a slave and living in a fucking wooden lean-to.

10/9/2012 4:52:40 AM
#1456488
Doubting Thomas

Because being owned by another person and having all rights & freedoms taken away, having your kids sold as property and never seeing them again, and being forced to toil in the hot sun all day is far better than just living in poverty.

10/9/2012 5:38:20 AM
#1456489
Ebon

Knowing what we know today about life on the African continent, would an existence spent in slavery have been any crueler than a life spent in sub-Saharan Africa?

YES!

10/9/2012 5:38:51 AM
#1456493
D Laurier

When did Africa become part of America?
"[African Americans must] understand that even while in the throes of slavery, their lives as Americans are likely much better than they ever would have enjoyed living in sub-Saharan Africa."
[Why?]
Why must they understand that slavery is better than being free?
Why must anyone understand that having ones language beaten out of them by a foreign master is better than being alowed to speak ones own language?
Why must anyone understand that it is better to BE property, than it is to OWN property?
Why must anyone understand that it is better to be raped at the whim of an overseer, than it is to love someone?

10/9/2012 5:42:48 AM
#1456531
NiggEraser

Niggers should never have been brought to a shining new land. Think of it this way: Would you buy a brand-spanking-new Ferrari and then immediately take a dump on the seat?

10/9/2012 6:57:59 AM
#1456536
UHM

What kind of drugs does this guy take?

10/9/2012 7:02:00 AM
#1456575
Rabbit of Caerbannog

"Niggers should never have been brought to a shining new land."

Though with people already living on the continent I would hardly categorize North America as "new." But, here I am arguing semantics with a Nazi.

10/9/2012 7:38:08 AM
#1456585
NiggEraser

@ Rabbit of Caerbannog

No, I'm not a Nazi. I have absolutely no problem with Jewish people (their culture is very interesting, and they're generally nice people). The only true Nazis in the world are niggers.

10/9/2012 8:02:41 AM
#1456587
Leighton Buzzard

@ NiggEraser:

I'm a Jew, and you're a Nazi. Hope that clears things up for you.

10/9/2012 8:06:55 AM
#1456606
Ryushikaze

@Eraser

Black guy stole your girlfriend? Get promoted over you? Something's fueling your pathetic, impotent rage.

10/9/2012 8:55:14 AM
#1456653
dfmfundies

On a Usenet newsgroup I frequent, this assclown's remarks came up. The resident libertarian reactionary defended him and slavery. When I (among others) denounced his stand, he attacked me as "hate-filled." Classic DARVO.

10/9/2012 11:15:08 AM
#1456720
Vox

"[African Americans must] understand that even while in the throes of slavery, their lives as Americans are likely much better than they ever would have enjoyed living in sub-Saharan Africa."

Slaves lived better than free men? Methinks not.

10/9/2012 2:33:31 PM
#1456725
Mech610

@NiggEraser

I, like Leighton Buzzard am also a Jew and can tell a Nazi when I see one, and I hate to break it to you chief, but you're a Nazi.

Remember, the Nazis didn't only kill Jews, they killed Gypsies, Poles, the Disabled and (GASP!) Africans.

10/9/2012 3:04:11 PM
#1456753
Vox

@New Face of Rove - Hell, even Maasai and Khoi tribesmen living in non-air-conditioned huts and thatch houses in Kenya, Tanazania and Namibia lived better than African-American slaves. No one was whipping them, working them to death or taking away their freedom or using the women as rape toys like a lot of American slave owners were wont to do (the main source of why most African-Americans have some European ancestry).

10/9/2012 3:56:08 PM
#1456790
ScrappyB

Do you know the major reasons southern Africa is in bad shape these days? Because of European colonialism and the slave trade. The natives were pretty well off until all those white people started claiming everything in sight, shipping them off to be worked to death (if they survived the journey, that is) and generally fucking things up.

10/9/2012 7:02:03 PM
#1456855
Mattiedef

Slave Trade was primarily via Africans selling slaves to Europenas, actually. Barbaric Colonism did fuck them up, why those places that had it the worst like Congo are off the worst.

Ethopia I just don't know. They beat Italy and Italy just came back in pre WW2 with tanks to murder 'em. There was no real point.

By the time Europe Got serious about Colonizing Africa most of them had banned slaves. The worst of the colonials were just basically imposing slave like labor on their natives.

Which brings up the question why Americans just exterminated the Native Americans, despite some of them intergrating into American Society just dandy. Though there was a debate over how to treat them way, way back in the day. Supreme Court Decides Georgia's treatment of the Native Americans is bad. Andrew Jackson refuses to step in. Ughles.

10/9/2012 11:31:43 PM
#1457027
Vox

@Mattiedef - Ethiopia is very poor in terms of income per capita because it's a corrupt monarchy. Part of the same reason Mali is very poor. The monarchy just makes money off the populace and does nothing to improve the country.


"By the time Europe Got serious about Colonizing Africa most of them had banned slaves. The worst of the colonials were just basically imposing slave like labor on their natives."

That's kind of inaccurate. By the time Europe got serious about colonialism in the 19th while they did officially ban the buying of slaves in Europe they didn't ban Europeans moving to Africa and taking slaves there, nor did they ban takeovers, slaughters or punitive wars against Africans. Well after slavery was banned in Europe there were European colonists killing Africans like nobody's business (read up on the Herero & Namaqua Genocide or the massacres of the Shona people in Zimbabwe and the Zulus in South Africa). European kings like Leopold II still murdered millions of Africans (he murdered somewhere between 4-20 million people in central Africa) with impunity late into the 1800s. European colonialists in Africa were also still allowed to do things like take up all the arable land and round off the native Africans onto reservations surrounded by non-arable or barely-arable land, force Africans into Christian schools to learn European langauges and disallow them from passing down their aboriginal religions or languages to their children, etc.

10/10/2012 9:08:10 AM
#1457029
Vox

Europe held onto to its colonial empires in Africa until the end of WWI and WWII when Europe was so damaged by those wars it no longer had the military or economic power to hold back native rebellions and revolutionary movements. However, they did not just gleefully give up their empires - well into the Cold War Europe worked with the US to train counterrevolutionaries and install puppet dictators (like the overthrow of Patrice Lumumba by US puppet dictator Mobuto Sese-Seko in Zaire) who promised the West to uphold European property and capital holdings in Africa in return for Western money and support. That's a HUGE contributor to Africa's problems today - puppet dictators who allowed the African people to starve so Westerners could continue to monopolize arable farming land and productive capital in Africa.

Look up things like the DeBeers Company and how they make a huge profit on a relatively plentiful resource (diamonds) by paying African workers next to nothing and forcing them to labor in dangerous conditions. Just because Europe ended slavery WITHIN Europe decades before the US doesn't mean Europe stopped raping Africa of resources and allowing colonists to herd the natives into concentration camp-like reservations and using them for cheap (and even unpaid slave) labor.

10/10/2012 9:09:00 AM
#1457059


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_State_Penitentiary

Seems soooooo much better.

10/10/2012 10:45:42 AM
#1457133
UHM

@all: Stop calling every racist or fascist a Nazi. Nazism is a very specific ideology, only if you agree with all of those things that Nazism preaches you can be considered a Nazi. If you hate black people, you might be a Nazi, but you also just might be a racist -- and in my book that's bad enough to despise these people.

Nazi-baiting makes the term as wishy-washy as "Communism" or "Socialism" in the United States, and we can all see what came from that.

10/10/2012 4:38:23 PM
#1457136
J. James

For the life of me I will never understand the completely irrational hatred that some people have for arbitrary "races" that differ from their own. It makes no sense. Like that one racist's Ferrari metaphor. The fuck? Seriously, the fuck?! The world's largest forced migration, the world's largest economic profiteering off of forced labor, the world's largest subjugation of real, human beings, and it is reduced to someone shitting in a nice car? You have got to be kidding me. If this is the best argument that racists could come up with, they're even more pathetic than I thought.

10/10/2012 5:03:54 PM
#1457424
Joebob

@UHM You know who else was particular about the term "Nazi?" Hitler.

10/11/2012 11:50:37 AM
#1457453
Leighton Buzzard

@ UHM: this here is a site that takes the piss out of and insults various loonies. We'll call 'em what we fucking well like. We are not about correct use of language and history, we are all about the abuse. You want to get all politically correct and play word-magic games, fuck off over to Pharyngula, they're big on that shit over there.

10/11/2012 1:27:50 PM
#1457546
farpadokly

1. I assume that a life lived in some sort of freedom, even if only relative, is always better than a life lived in slavery.
2. This is comparing Africa as it was in the slavery period to Africa as it is now. That's the fundamental mistake. The reason why Africa looks as it does today is because international financial institutions have forced it to open up its markets and imposed neoliberal policies on it that the west can protect itself from.
Edit: UHM is right, but on the other hand, I think it's OK to call someone a Nazi if they resemble one. And let's not have any confusion about this: A lot of the modern American right DO resemble Nazis.

10/11/2012 7:25:21 PM
#1457549
Vox

@farpadokly - I made a post in the "Conspiracy Theorists Say The Darndest Things" archive about the overlap between "Classical Fascism" and American "Neo-Fascism":

http://www.fstdt.com/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=89783&Page=1#1452023

10/11/2012 8:03:45 PM
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