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Quote# 90002

You cannot legislate morality. I have heard that phrase repeated often throughout my lifetime. It must be true. Lennon, the founder of Russian Communism, said that if you tell a lie loud enough and often enough people will believe it. I recently came across a Christian minister who repeated that phrase to me and expressed that he believed it was true. How have we gotten so confused? Is it immoral to shop lift? If we cannot legislate morality, does that mean we cannot have a law that makes shoplifting illegal? If our laws are not based on moral principles they are of no value. Most laws do in fact legislate morality. If a law does not legislate morality the law is unnecessary. Do we really believe that the God of the Bible is the creator of the universe, and the creator of man? If so, doesn’t it stand to reason that we should look to our creator for moral guidance?

Charles Fuqua, God's Law - The Only Political Solution 72 Comments [10/10/2012 3:34:14 AM]
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Protagonist

I actually agree with most of this, besides the "Lennon" fail and the Buy-Bull bits. Laws DO legislate morality. That's the point. But this morality should be beneficial to the entire group instead of just one religious persuasion.

10/10/2012 3:39:17 AM

Justanotheratheist

Lennon was no more the founder of Russian Communism than God is our creator, so shut the fuck up.

10/10/2012 3:51:54 AM

christian leftie

Laws legislate:
1. Against behaviours that seek to cause deliberate harm to others;
2. Against behaviours which cause harm to others or society through negligence;
3. The construction of social framework to allow meaningful and safe interactions within society.

None of these are morality based, but based instead in ethics. The difference being that ethics can be figured out, while morality comes from an external source which people disagree upon.

10/10/2012 3:55:54 AM

Leighton Buzzard

And anyway it was Goebbels, not Lenin.

10/10/2012 4:02:34 AM

Whitleylad

I think you'll find Lennon was the founder of the Mersey Beat group The Beatles rather than Russian Communism

10/10/2012 4:13:42 AM

whatever

Shut the fuqua up.

10/10/2012 4:14:53 AM

D Laurier

Lennon, The basist for British rock band The Beatles, said no such thing. You are thinking of Goebbels, the propaganda engineer of German Nazism.


These idiots are too stupid to breathe.

10/10/2012 4:17:55 AM

Reynardine

No. Lennon founded the English Beatles. Lenin led the second Russian Revolution. Goebbels said that. You said disobedient childtren should be stoned to death. If you self-published a pile of rotting brains, that doesn't mean anyone has to pay attention to it, except at your competency hearing.

10/10/2012 4:18:39 AM

rubber chicken

I was telling a story to a group of friends once, about my visit to Lenins tomb in Red Square, when I was interrupted by a guy who asked, "What is he doing in Moscow?",
"Huh?"
" Wasn't he killed in New York ?"
" Huh?".

This reminds me of that.

10/10/2012 4:22:57 AM

Mike Litoris

Well, what do you know; The Beatles actually were bigger than jesus!


10/10/2012 4:30:07 AM

TheReasonator

"You cannot legislate morality."

It is a confusing statement but what it means is passing a law is not going to change people's morality.

It's not to say we shouldn't consider morality when making laws, but we should primarily consider whether the law itself is moral not just whether the target of the law is moral. The fact that someone is doing something immoral doesn't mean we can magically solve that by passing a law. Sometimes a law is the best way to deal with it. I wish we had more of these laws when dealing with immoral corporate behavior. But even there you could overreach.

Sometimes a law against something immoral will do more harm than good, and sometimes the only evidence of "immorality" is that an ancient book says so. Moral rule number one for law-making, laws should not be based on arbitrary and capricious reasoning. Obscure passages taken out of context from an ancient book of questionable authenticity is NOT moral to use to make laws off of.

10/10/2012 5:23:46 AM

Doubting Thomas

"Lennon" aside, there's a difference between laws protecting people from the acts of other people, and laws prohibiting things which aren't harming anyone and were enacted because some people were squeamish about what some other people were doing.

It all comes down to whether there's a victim or not. If someone shoplifts, the store owner is a victim of theft. If two consenting adults have sex outside of marriage, there's no victim.

10/10/2012 5:49:36 AM

Mister Spak

" Do we really believe that the God of the Bible is the creator of the universe, and the creator of man? If so, doesn’t it stand to reason that we should look to our creator for moral guidance?"

No, we believe that the Allah of the Koran creator of the universe, and the creator of man. It stands to reason that we should look to our creator for moral guidance. Also Vladimir Lenin was not in a 1960s rock group.



10/10/2012 5:53:27 AM

UHM

As a left-libertarian I agree that one can not effectively legislate morality - but that does not mean the breakdown of anything. We can still legislate based on the idea that hurting other people (physical, emotional and financial) over a certain line is inefficient to society.

As much as revenge in the judicial system, morality has no place in lawmaking.

10/10/2012 5:54:28 AM

Dr.Shrinker

"Do we really believe that the God of the Bible is the creator of the universe, and the creator of man? If so, doesn’t it stand to reason that we should look to our creator for moral guidance?"

- Having read the bible, I can honestly say say no.

10/10/2012 5:55:25 AM

WWBFD

Imagine that.

10/10/2012 6:00:19 AM

The Crimson Ghost

What do the Beatles have to do with Russian commies?

10/10/2012 6:07:46 AM

Paler_Face

Lennon, the founder of Russian Communism, said that if you tell a lie loud enough and often enough people will believe it.

(John) Lennon was one of the Beatles, a 1960 boy band.

(Vladimir) Lenin was in influential figure in the October Revolution, and eventually became premier of the Sovjet Union.

Notice a difference?

Also, the quote can not be attributed to either of these figures. It's a nazi quote, though I forget who made it.

10/10/2012 6:38:53 AM

Filin De Blanc

Well, John Lennon did sing "imagine no possessions" but I don't think that qualifies him as the founder of Russian communism.

10/10/2012 6:44:08 AM

LAchlan

does he mean John or Neil Lennon?
I think "if you tell a lie loud enough and often enough people will believe it" applies to religion more than anything else.

10/10/2012 7:02:39 AM

Rabbit of Caerbannog








10/10/2012 7:05:55 AM

dionysus

Of course laws can legislate morality. They have to in order to keep society functioning by taking murderers and rapists off the streets. What laws need to stay out of is "crimes" that don't actually hurt anyone. Outlawing homosexuality because some stupid book said so is wrong. Following the laws of only one religion and forcing them on everyone else is wrong.

10/10/2012 7:22:32 AM

Horsefeathers

"If we cannot legislate morality, does that mean we cannot have a law that makes shoplifting illegal?"

Shoplifting is not illegal because it is immoral, moron.

"If our laws are not based on moral principles they are of no value. Most laws do in fact legislate morality."

The only laws that attempt to legislate morality are those that were passed to appease the religious, such as many places not selling alcohol on Sundays until after noon and other such "blue" laws.

"Do we really believe that the God of the Bible is the creator of the universe, and the creator of man? If so, doesn’t it stand to reason that we should look to our creator for moral guidance?"

Fine. As soon as he appears so that we may directly ask his opinion of things I'll be more than happy to have laws legislated to enforce his opinions. Laws should not be created based on someone's interpretation of what this deity supposedly wants done based on reading some bronze age collection of bullshit.

10/10/2012 7:24:43 AM

whatever

Actually it was McCartney who founded most of Russian Communism. Lennon just sang "Imagine" while Moscow burned. A bit like Nero...

10/10/2012 7:31:04 AM

OhJohnNo

@Rabbit:



EDIT: The fuck. That wasn't meant to be this big. Oh well, let's all look at it instead of the bundle of stupidity that is the quote.

10/10/2012 7:36:30 AM
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