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Quote# 90688

Nowadays, blacks are CEOs, politicians, military officers, celebrities, civil service employees, entrepreneurs, things the blacks of previous centuries could only dream of, and yet many of them still claim that racism is holding them back and they aren't treated equally as whites (I still remember my disgust at the cry "The dream has been achieved" after Obama's election, as if blacks had never accomplished anything before that event. And even now, there are blacks out there who will still claim MLK's dream hasn't come to pass). Frankly, it makes one wonder if they really want racism to be gone, considering how much they harp on it in spite of the obvious differences between now and then. And don't even get me started on the measures society goes through today to avoid even the thought of racism (often to no avail); it can certainly be said the races aren't treated equaly, but not in the way one would think.

As a rational man, I'll be one of the first to acknowledge blacks haven't been given the treatment they are entitled to as human beings throughout America's existence, and I despise racism as much as any supporter of individual rights should. But it's rather hard to keep taking the Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons of the world seriously when they cry that blacks are still being racially oppressed, yet evidence contradicting them is in plain view. Maybe one day, the evidence will be such that more people, black and white, will be telling them they're full of crap.

sonrouge, Deviantart 26 Comments [11/13/2012 4:12:17 AM]
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Eh, not really racist.

11/13/2012 5:22:34 AM

Sheridan

More clueless than racist.

11/13/2012 6:14:20 AM

Doubting Thomas

If you don't think that there is a lot of racism just under the surface out there, look at all the derision our current president has gotten the past four years. I really don't think all the talk about birth certificates and being "Kenyan-born," all the "Obongo" and "Obamanation" talk, claims of him being Muslim, and demands to see his college transcripts would be happening if he were white.

11/13/2012 7:44:23 AM

Ebon

You can post a screed like this and still claim to not be racist?

11/13/2012 7:57:02 AM

Rabbit of Caerbannog

I'll give him props on coming out against overt racism, but he needs to study institutional racism before he makes idiot posts like this in the future...so I'll classify this as more stupid than racist.

11/13/2012 8:37:56 AM

J. James

Ignorant, yes. Malicious, no.

11/13/2012 9:55:19 AM

myheadhurts

it is better in some places.

However, it aint peachy.

11/13/2012 12:16:54 PM

fishtank

"And all the uncle Daves gather around a heavenly kitchen table. They talk about how they never got a break [...] how the jews own everything and blacks get special treatment..."

(George Carlin)

11/13/2012 12:34:22 PM



This is skeptical and conservative rather than bigoted, maybe a bit naive to think we are actually equal when comparing the best of the best of each race.

11/13/2012 1:20:28 PM

Vox

It's not overt racism really but there is plenty of subtle, between-the-lines and covert racism there. Such as assuming that black people are all or mostly lazy and simply WANT racism to exist so they'll have excuses; assuming black people deep down all hate white people; assuming that 1 black man doing well means all black people have now achieved MLK's dream, etc. It's at least a lack of appreciation for the depth of subtle and institutional racism.

Quite frankly as a black man I almost threw up myself hearing some black people say MLK's dream had come to pass just because Obama was elected President. That's reminiscent of people who said because Jackie Robinson got drafted into the Majors that anti-black racism is over, but some white people said the same stupid things.


"Nowadays, blacks are CEOs, politicians, military officers, celebrities, civil service employees, entrepreneurs, things the blacks of previous centuries could only dream of, and yet many of them still claim that racism is holding them back and they aren't treated equally"

That's because it's still significantly more difficult for a black person to become any of these and black people are still much more likely to be the first laid off in economic hard times. The "last hired, first fired" motto. Black people are still paid less for the same jobs as white people, more likely to be stopped and searched and arrested, are less likely to be promoted regardless of their work output or work quality, and it's harder for them become employed, etc. Studies show that a black man with a Bachelor's Degree still only has the job opportunities of a white man with only a high school diploma and a felony:

http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-david-j-leonard/black-middle-class-reality_b_1774493.html

11/13/2012 3:11:53 PM

Vox

Unfortunately a lot of white Americans are in denial because:

1) They themselves don't personally have to deal with racism. Their main contact with it is hearing people complain about racism or hearing relatives and friends make racist comments.

2) A lot of white people start getting uncomfortable in these situations and start feeling like all white people in general are somehow being made out to be the "bad guy". So many will try the DARVO tactic of accusing the people complaining about racism of being racist or trying to shut down conversation with false equivalencies, usually suggesting that Affirmative Action harms just as many white people and more than makes up for the disadvantages minorities still face. You can see it in the discussion here:

http://www.nyu.edu/classes/jackson/social.issues/papers/AfActGrD.html


Most of them don't realize Affirmative Action, at most, would harm maybe 1% of white males in the workplace. Jobs that AA is applied to is a very small sector and private workplaces can use AA at their own discretion, they aren't forced to by the govt. The fact that the white unemployment rate is about 6-7% and the black one is 14-16% should show it's not really a windfall for black people. In fact, the majority of AA hires are white women. Ironically it helps white households overall more than black ones.

3) However, some of the uninformed/rose-tinted glasses comments from guys like "sonrouge" could also be due to sheer ignorance or naivety. Because he doesn't have to live the life of a minority he could simply be ignorant of what's really going on and under a false impression things are further along than they really are. A lot of guys like him tend to assume that all white bigots are frothing-at-the-mouth Klansmen openly burning crosses on their lawn, therefore if a white person is burning crosses or openly saying "nigger" they must not be racist.

11/13/2012 3:17:51 PM

Vox

The trick for nonwhite people in these kinds of conversations is to not overreact and just assume white people who say things like him are intentionally being deceptive - they may honestly be uninformed because they have the luxury of not having to pay attention to racism if they don't wish to. Minorities don't have that luxury. However, the other tricky part is that some white racists intentionally use the faux-naivety/wide-eyed innocence tactic in order to deny the reality of racism so that nothing will be done about it. Denying racism is a problem can be just as dastardly as being an overt racist because it ensures nothing will be done about it. Like guys who accuse women who talk about rape of being "just hateful of men".

11/13/2012 3:23:31 PM

UHM

Not really racist just a bit stupid, uninformed and angry because daddy told him/her to.

@Ebon: The actual definition of racist goes something like "the belief that one race is superior/inferior to all others, inherently evil, worth more/less or more dangerous than another race" - it isn't "anything that has to do with race that makes you feel icky in the tummy".
The only thing this guy/girl is saying is that (s)he feels now whites are treated worse than blacks.

11/13/2012 4:41:46 PM

thatotherguy

This isn't racist, but it's a great example of what racism does. It distorts, so that people who are looking right at it can't notice it.

11/13/2012 7:54:52 PM

werewolf

This poor guy is ignorant, not racist.

11/13/2012 11:35:58 PM

vaiyt

GO HOME PEOPLE




RACISM IS OVER

11/14/2012 5:35:19 AM



He's certainly ignorant and cynical, but I'm not sure he's a racist

11/14/2012 7:29:52 PM



@Vox

It's difficult to take the conclusions of someone who vomits over differing opinions seriously. If you were using hyperbole that's still inappropriate.

11/14/2012 9:18:32 PM

Anon

This site is absurd, what he said is a perfectly justifiable opinion! Some may disagree with it (the obvious point being that discrimination is displayed in more subtle ways) but it's not racist, and certainly not enough to be submitted here.
I'm tired of this site, it has become as fundamentalist as the people it tries to mock.

11/15/2012 7:15:57 AM

Vox

@#1469888 - Being a racist doesn't mean that someone is a foaming-at-the-mouth Klansmen. There are more subtle forms of racism that are much less personally virulent, but ultimately play into helping keep racism and/or racial discrimination going. What was racist about what he said was assumption that all or most black people want handouts or want to view themselves as victims. This part here:

"Frankly, it makes one wonder if they really want racism to be gone, considering how much they harp on it in spite of the obvious differences between now and then"

In the next sentence he gripes about the perceived lengths society goes to to not be seen as racist, implicating he thinks black people are getting some kind of special privileges.

That was my main gripe. A LOT of white people (even ones who aren't racist) will miss the racist implications in that because they don't personally have to deal with racism unless they voluntarily want to (like coming to RSTDT). Black people and other minorities are so used to dealing with white bigots that most of us have become adept at reading subtleties, nuances and dog-whistle codes that have racist implications or assumptions behind them. Like how prosecutors and cops are often good at picking up on if someone is being dishonest or evasive even if they're skilled at lying. A lot of white people (including many here) will be thrown off by his polite language. Some people can't see the racism unless they're dropping N-bombs. Racialists like Jared Taylor and J. Philippe Rushton heavily rely on this tactic of using polite langauge to express ideas just as reprehensible as any Klansman (not saying sonrouge is like that).

11/15/2012 7:49:49 AM

Vox

@#1469888 - Sorry if you misunderstood my post or if I was unclear. It wasn't meant to be hyperbole, it was a complaint about this "polite/subtle" version of racism and how it is often overlooked. It's the kind that's more common in the American North (smile in a nonwhite person's face and be friendly to them but not want them to move into your neighborhood) while the overt burn-a-cross-on-your-lawn kind regularly posted on RSTDT is the kind you see more commonly in the American South.


Also, beware: Some racists intentionally use the tactic of people like "sonrouge" to throw some people off the trail of their real intentions. If you continue to poke and prod them and carry on a conversation with them sometimes more virulent bigotry will come out as they become aggravated. I've encountered it countless times online: Someone makes relatively innocent, uninformed-sounding quips like this guy and when I challenge them on it they fairly quickly devolve into N-bombs and "go back to Africa" talk. Lol

11/15/2012 8:01:05 AM

LAchlan

shouldn't your name be cou rouge?

11/15/2012 11:08:57 AM

Asterose

Seconding all that Vox has said, despite being a white woman. When you're part of the majority, you honestly don't SEE the subtler shades and tendrils of racism as well as honestly clueless, unintented furthering of inequality. Much of the same can be said about genderism (to the detriment of either male and female, not just women-oh double standards.) Taking a course in Race, Class, and Gender or Sociology opens ones eyes to these kinds of things as well as what to make of white people and males claiming being discriminated against for no reason by minorities/women wanting and getting special treatment. Which side is correct and justified is up to the individual, but first getting informed on the minorities' claims and proofs is, as always, a good idea.

We're moving well past overt discrimination being acceptable, but a couple decades is not enough to pry out the subtler and longer-running impacts, e.g. blacks being denied housing while whites were not after WWII in America, furthering ghettos and the cycle of violence + poverty. AA is an attempt to break that cycle by giving more opportunities to get out of that cycle and into the middle class.

That said, this quote is definitely in that gray area far as what should or shouldn't be on this website since it isn't extreme.

/dissertation, whoops.

11/15/2012 11:33:41 AM

Anon

It's certainly true that subtle racism exists, and I'd expect that it's far more common than overt racism, but the claim that "white people don't see racism because they don't suffer it" is suspicious to me, it smacks of moving the goalposts. If white people have no say in what constitutes racism then the term can be endlessly redefined to ensure that white people are always racist so long as somebody feels that it's in their interest to say so.
The UK has seen a resurgence of racism in the last ten years, and a good portion of that is a backlash from people who are not really racist, but are so tired of being told that they are by people seeking to use it as a weapon that they mimic some racist statements (jokes and the like) as a way of rebelling, it's got to the point where racism is thoughtcrime, and after years of behaving like Parsons in the novel, people are finally deciding that they don't care about being branded as racist, as the term has lost all meaning through overuse.
This is bad for everyone, as it means that actual racism goes unnoticed in the flurry of stupid accusations.

11/15/2012 10:53:31 PM

LadyJafaria

I tend to have a knee-jerk reaction to anyone who uses "black" as a noun, but I'd say this hits a few dogwhistles besides that:
1. "We have a black President, there's no racism!"
2. "Looking to be offended"
3. "Not racist but"

So yeah, it's racist. Confused, subtle and more politician than redneck, but still tinged with racism.

11/18/2012 10:32:07 AM
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