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Quote# 90912

Then there's the matter of female suffrage. I really don't see how suggesting women should not have been granted the right to vote is misogyny. It might be motivated by it, but not necessarily so, and treating it as such is akin to criminalizing holocaust denial: it's censorship, pure and simple, and if /r/MR wants to keep calling itself an open space where ideas are not silenced, that attitude has to change. I'll corroborate my claim with the writings of Laura Grace Robins, whose blog contains a whole category devoted to women's suffrage and how it has negatively impacted society. Whether or not you agree with her stance, you cannot claim it arises from hatred of women.

zyk0s, Reddit: Men's Rights 45 Comments [11/22/2012 4:30:17 AM]
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Leighton Buzzard

Yeah, you can. Self-hatred is still hatred, fuckwit.

11/22/2012 4:45:06 AM

dylanstrategie

You can't put up a serious argument against female suffrage without saying that womens are either inferior, or should not have any rights to start with

I consider both of these as hatred, and I don't accept any of the two as decent arguments

And I don't care about "negative influence", the only thing "negative" woman suffrage has really created is making women real citizens instead of making them some family/husband possesion

11/22/2012 5:04:05 AM



As for ciminalizing holocaust denial, it's a simple fact of enforcing reality: these events happened and if we ever want to prevent another spree, we need to prevent any attempt at revisionism.

11/22/2012 5:07:28 AM

Mudak

I took the liberty of googling this Laura Grace Robins (actually, it's Robbins) person. If she actually made a coherent argument, her entire blog would belong here on FSTDT.

http://unmaskingfeminism.wordpress.com/

11/22/2012 5:28:28 AM

gravematter

"I really don't see how suggesting women should not have been granted the right to vote is misogyny."
Right. So women aren't inferior, they're just "different", right? Let the menfolk get on with creating, philosophising, governing and voting, and let the women get on with the stuff they're good at, like popping out babies and performing menial household tasks. Beautiful.
And seriously, citing one example of a misogynist woman to justify female oppression is like trying to justify racism by citing the few black members of the BNP (Racist British political party).

11/22/2012 5:43:21 AM

beehummingbird

"I really don't see how suggesting women should not have been granted the right to vote is misogyny."

Yes, and suggesting that black people shouldn't vote isn't racist.

11/22/2012 5:44:08 AM



Okay I think that crack about the Holocaust tells us everything we need to know about you and that you shouldn't be allowed within 20 metres of a child.

11/22/2012 5:56:52 AM

UHM

No.

11/22/2012 6:06:09 AM

J. James

"it's censorship, pure and simple"

I have to admit, that's a new one. These people really don't grasp that their rights stop where another person's begins, right?

11/22/2012 6:11:46 AM



Female suffrage is not the problem here. The only problem with feminism is the radicals. They're pretty much the fundies of the movement.

Methinks the OP would rather want female suffer-age.

11/22/2012 7:06:48 AM

breakerslion

You really don't grasp the concept of sets and subsets, do you?

That said, you are free to speak your mind. Defining a thing is not the same as refuting it through reasoned argument or debate. If what comes out of your mouth defines you as a male chauvinist, misogynist, bigot, or lunatic however, don't expect everybody to like you.

11/22/2012 7:09:25 AM

Mihangel apYrs

the Athenians had (circumscribed) democracy as it was necessary for the men who would do the fighting to aggree to any significant decisions, a citizens' army cannot easily be run as a conscript one. Thus women were excluded since they didn't fight.

In modern democracies the generality of the male population isn't involved in war, but they still get a vote: the same status exists for women.

And a single woman's view is hardly definitive

11/22/2012 7:10:28 AM

Rabbit of Caerbannog

"Whether or not you agree with her stance, you cannot claim it arises from hatred of women."

Oh yes I can.

11/22/2012 7:32:31 AM

Arctic Knight

Misogyny is not always "hatred," it can also be distrust. Someone who doesn't hate women but distrusts women is still misogynist.

If someone does not trust women to be able to make their own choices in the voting process, then that person is a misogynist, it doesn't matter if that person is a man or a woman.

11/22/2012 7:43:54 AM

Reynardine

Female misogynists are the worst kind, because they want all other women to be as miserable as they are.

11/22/2012 8:06:08 AM

NotYourMomma,Douchebag

I agree, because women vote, we all suffer.

Their place is in the kitchen, crankin out yum yums.

lol

This place is too much.

11/22/2012 8:12:49 AM

Swede

If you can't see the misogyny, then turn it around and say "men" instead of "women". If it still sounds perfectly reasonable to you, then it is probably not misogyny.

"I really don't see how suggesting men should not have been granted the right to vote is misandry."
Nah, both sounds just as stupid and discriminatory to me. Nothing reasonable about it at all. You're a misogynist!

11/22/2012 8:31:51 AM

Darwin

Well, let's look at all the things that have happened since women got the vote:

Hitler/Pearl Harbor/Holocaust/World War 2

Atomic weapons

Aids

Bande Aceh earthquake and tsunami

Japanese earthquake and tsunami

Justin Bieber

Yep, I'm convinced.

11/22/2012 8:43:40 AM

mattiedef

Without cool women, we would have never discovered radiation!

11/22/2012 9:46:23 AM

Reddit Delenda Est

Reddit Delenda Est.

Reddit Must Be Destroyed.

11/22/2012 10:09:09 AM



It does, because you're denying women a fundamental right, that is, to make their political thoughts known and participate in government. What if men under 40 were denied the right to vote?

11/22/2012 10:26:48 AM

WWWWolf

> I really don't see how suggesting women should not have been granted the right to vote is misogyny.

Here's something that the fundamentalists (of all stripes) don't get.

Your idea (that you support the notion that women shouldn't be granted the right to vote) makes you a misogynist.

However, misogyny isn't grounds for censorship. Few things are.

You will, however, be disapproved of, just like the holocaust denialists will be disapproved of, and just like people tend to frown at the hate fundies fling at sexual minorities and people of other faith.

So here's a bit of a truth in mostly monosyllablic words, for your benefit: Just 'cause folks don't put up with your shit don't mean they are cenn-shor-shipp-ping you.

In other words: Freedom of Speech doesn't mean everyone has to approve of what you say. Freedom of Speech means everyone else has the right to exercise their Freedom of Speech by disagreeing with you. Clear enough?

11/22/2012 11:53:17 AM

CC13

@1472788: Well, that's the theory, but we have no evidence that it actually works out that way in practice. Bear in mind that theWeimar Republic's own proscriptions of hate speech not only proved no obstacle to Nazi ascendancy, but also formed the basis of much Nazi repression of dissent. Moreover, even if a willingness to throw over "enforcement of reality" in favor of free speech absolutism could be conclusively shown to have contributed to the rise of the Nazi Party, its share of the blame would still be insignificant compared to that which could be levied against the Treaty of Versailles, the laissez-faire economic policies that led to the Great Depression (which devalued the mark so thoroughly that German children were allowed to make kites from German marks), the apathy—if not outright hostility—of right-wing Germans towards the Weimar Republic, the very real Communist threat (which see the Spartacus uprising) and the general weakness of the Weimar Republic, among other factors. Myself, I think that the Weimar Republic was bound for disaster no matter what, but YMMV.

11/22/2012 12:08:50 PM

Hasan Prishtina

So Holocaust denial can't be anti-Semitic because Israel Shamir is Jewish, amirite?

11/22/2012 12:12:18 PM

anti-nonsense

Look up internalized oppression sometime. Then go fuck yourself.

11/22/2012 12:35:17 PM
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