If I'm remembering what I learned about our legal system correctly, you can't charge someone with a crime once that activity has been legalized. For example, in Washington State they can't charge someone now for possession of marijuana that occurred a few months ago before it was legal (they could still prosecute if charges were brought before the law changed though). Of course, it's a waste of time and resources to charge someone with a crime when that very same activity has become legal. So going after these two military members for being gay in the military before it was allowed is a waste of time and would only serve to ruin a couple of people's lives and careers, not to mention that it wasn't a crime to begin with, just a reason to bring about a discharge. Of course NKP_Vet probably doesn't give a shit about that. It's all about persecuting them filthy queers.
12/8/2012 8:03:08 AM
If no one asked and they didn't tell, then it wasn't illegal.
12/8/2012 12:06:12 PM
The priest may have blessed the marriage; Jesus didn't. The military may view them as a couple; Jesus doesn't. Society may accept them; Jesus won't.
12/8/2012 9:18:45 PM
@His4Life: Your pronouncement of what Jesus will or will not accept is conceit beyond measure.
If your saviour exists, then I am afraid that it is YOU who will have to justify this on the last day.
12/9/2012 4:51:34 AM
Filin De Blanc
"The priest may have blessed the marriage; Jesus didn't. The military may view them as a couple; Jesus doesn't. Society may accept them; Jesus won't."
Jesus thinks you're a jerk and he's dreading the day that you die and he has to deal with your holier-than-thou wretchedness.
See, I can claim stuff about who Jesus does and doesn't like with no evidence too.
12/9/2012 4:59:03 AM
I'm not presuming anything. God has already shared his thoughts with us in the Bible. You are free to reject God's stated opinion on this subject, but the Bible is clear that homosexuality is unacceptable to God/Christ.
Homosexuality is not an unforgiveable sin, however. Homosexuals can repent and receive forgiveness in Christ just like anyone else. We have many gay couples in my church who have sought repentance. Jesus has blessed them and I am confident that they will spend eternity in heaven with the rest of us. On the other hand, unrepented sin of any type, whether that's homosexuality or any other sin, will ensure that eternity is hell for you.
12/9/2012 8:44:03 AM
Filin De Blanc
"You are free to reject God's stated opinion on this subject, but the Bible is clear that homosexuality is unacceptable to God/Christ."
It says the same thing about wearing mixed fabrics, but I bet you do that.
12/9/2012 9:11:08 AM
So he objects to a priest at a military base blessing a gay wedding.
I'd object to priests at military bases in general, kind of hard to square military chaplaincy with that old 'Thou Shalt Not Kill' thing if you ask me.
12/9/2012 12:32:35 PM
Filin, actually I don't. Nice try, though. There was a time in my Christian life when I discarded much of the Old Testament law, but I have since become a Torah-observant daughter of Solomon. So, I do not wear mixed fabrics, I eat a kosher diet, my family will be celebrating Hannukah alongside Christmas this year, etc.
12/9/2012 12:41:48 PM
Filin De Blanc
"Filin, actually I don't. Nice try, though. There was a time in my Christian life when I discarded much of the Old Testament law, but I have since become a Torah-observant daughter of Solomon. So, I do not wear mixed fabrics, I eat a kosher diet, my family will be celebrating Hannukah alongside Christmas this year, etc."
12/9/2012 1:10:11 PM
1. I agree, it would be stupid to prosecute them, as well as hateful.
2. Troll4Life, The Holy Word of God is surprisingly hard to tell from your own bigoted opinion.
3. I hope the newlyweds will have a long and happy life together.
12/9/2012 2:06:02 PM
@His4Life: You are wrong on so many levels.
You are creating a God in your own bigoted, homophobic image.
For your own salvation, simply try reading the words of your own saviour in the new testament.
Put aside the homophobic bullshit that countless pastors have instilled in you and read His words with a clean mind.
Read what Jesus said regarding whom he does condemn and whom he does not. Read how he forgives all. Consider what he has to say on judgement of others.
When you have finally understood what the lovable hippy (said with respect) meant, don't feel sad. Feel happy that you have forgiveness too!
An THEN go out into the world telling people that the stuff that people get up to in their own bedrooms does no harm, whereas your (and their) own homophobic bigotry actually hurts people. People die through this genuinely evil crap.
And say sorry to God that it takes an atheist to explain your own religion to you.
Oh, and for the record.... straight as a die!
12/9/2012 3:10:06 PM
Macunian, thank you for your comments. The problem I have with your view is that you seem to be suggesting that the New Testament has a different message from the old. I see the Bible as one book and believe that Jesus, as God, wrote the entire body of Scripture. From that perspective, it's clear what Jesus thinks of homosexuality activity from what he said to his people in Leviticus and elsewhere. Nowhere is homosexuality activity sanctified or praised as worthy of God's reward. The Old Testament calls it an abomination, says that it is sin in God's eyes, specifically depicts a city destroyed for homosexual practice and warns that sodomy is one of the punishments awaiting the unrepentant on judgment day, worthy of shame and extreme guilt that could expel a person from their community.
In the New Testament, St. Paul, an apostle of Christ, directly condemns homosexual activity, warning that it is a sign that God has "given a person over" to reap the consequences of their own sins. While all of these passages depict homosexuality as a sin, the best that you can argue from is silence. I can find no scripture that implies that homosexuality is something that God approves of or that should be embraced - can you?
12/10/2012 7:06:25 AM
Although I do not personally believe that homosexual behaviour is sinful, I can understand why some people who believe in the literal and total nature of the bible would do so.
Incidentally, I commend you strongly here for accepting the totality of the old testament, extending it to the wearing of mixed clothing, for example, rather than cherry picking the icky gay sex bit.
However, where I originally took issue was with your assertion that Jesus would not accept given relationships. You may strongly feel that the relationships are wrong, but you cannot claim to know what Jesus will or will not accept or forgive. This molds a Jesus in your image, rather than the Jesus of the new testament.
The character that comes over in the NT has a much kinder, forgiving face than OT God.
The sermon on the mount gives me a clear picture of what Jesus thought important. And he never mentions gay-bashing once.
We should all get on with making the world a better, more harmonious place rather than obsessing with other people's bedroom activity.
If you are right, then Jesus will one day do the judging. It is not your place. (Matthew 7:1 "Judge not...")
OTOH, encouraging homophobic bigotry can actually end up with people getting hurt. That is not a matter of stance or opinion, it's a matter of fact.
Surely you can see that as immeasurably worse?
12/10/2012 7:59:08 AM
Hey, Troll4Life, you say you follow the entire Bible? How about the part that tells women to STFU about matters of dogma, particularly when talking to men? :P
As for a positive representation of homosexual love in the Bible, how about David and Jonathan?
Seems like NKP_Vet worships the military, not the Christian god.
Indeed. He really should GTFO of our century and get his ass to the 41st millenium. The Imperial Guard can always use the cannon fodder.
12/10/2012 9:44:47 AM
Troll4Life, you continue to be Wrong on the Internet, in every conceivable way.
"The Old Testament calls it an abomination, says that it is sin in God's eyes, specifically depicts a city destroyed for homosexual practice"
Book, chapter, and verse, please, preferably as a link to an online edition of the New International Version of the bible, or you are officially full of it. Do note that in the New Testament the "sin of your sister Sodom" is explicitly described as a lack of hospitality, *NOT* homosexuality.
"and warns that sodomy is one of the punishments awaiting the unrepentant on judgment day, worthy of shame and extreme guilt that could expel a person from their community. "
Book, chapter, verse as a link to an online version of the NIV bible here too, please, or again you are completely full of shit. I've been lurking around here for a while and noticed your nasty little obsession with people you don't like being eternally anally raped in your imaginary hell.
"In the New Testament, St. Paul, an apostle of Christ, directly condemns homosexual activity, warning that it is a sign that God has "given a person over" to reap the consequences of their own sins."
Once again, BOOK, CHAPTER, VERSE, as a link to an online copy of the NIV or shut the fuck up. Also, Paul was a known jerkface who made an awful lot of stuff up out of his own bigotry, much like YOU.
12/10/2012 2:26:26 PM
> They were in the military BEFORE don’t ask, don’t tell, therefore they were in the US military ILLEGALLY and should now be charged and prosecuted.
You just don't get it. The whole don't ask, don't tell thing was illegal. Banning gay people from the military is also illegal.
Instead, the military needs to compensate people who were illegally charged & prosecuted for being gay.
> The DOMA is still alive and well in the US military.
DOMA is illegal, and will (hopefully) be repealed in the near future.
> Kick this God-hating creep to the curb.
If he is a preacher, then he is not god-hating.
> He is not fit to preach the gospel of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. He has mocked and defiled His Holy name!
And you fundies don't?
12/10/2012 2:35:56 PM
Moekosowl, here are some references for you:
Sodom and Gomorrah:
Genesis 19:3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”
6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.”
Sodomy as punishment in the afterlife:
Daniel 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
The word for shame here is the same word used to describe a homosexual act. Those who engaged in such acts were viewed with "everlasting contempt" and cast out of their community in ancient times. The analogy here is that the unsaved will likewise be cast out of the eternal community of God in heaven.
Homosexuality in Paul's writings:
Has lots of links to direct verses.
12/11/2012 7:00:02 AM
Filin De Blanc
His, I still don't get why Jesus hates these people for being gay and yet doesn't hate you for judging everyone constantly, something which the Bible also condemns. Why is it only the sins people other than you commit that are unacceptable?
12/11/2012 7:28:12 AM
*Arrives home from work*
First point admitted. However, Lot is at least equally wrong there for offering his daughters to be gang-raped in place of his guests.
Second point: I would like a cite that the word for "shame" here is the same word used for a homosexual act, from a non-fundie source, please.
Second point, part two: The "everlasting contempt" was only in the ancient Middle East. The Romans seem to have been fine with it for males as long as the "top" was a Roman citizen who followed a certain set of rules described here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Rome
The Greeks were somewhat weirder about it, though their rules as to the "top" having higher status are similar to those of the Romans, however they practiced pederasty.
In Native American culture prior to the Europeans wiping it off the map and infecting this continent with the Fundy Flu, "Two Spirited" people were actually HONORED and fulfilled important roles in the tribes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-Spirit
And furthermore, the ancient Chinese view on the subject, prior to westernization aka infection with the Fundy Flu, was "Meh, it happens". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_China
Oh dear, Web of Trust seems to think that last site is a pit of spam and malware, would you care to try again?
Also I'd love to hear your response to Filin De Blanc's comment.
12/11/2012 2:20:54 PM
Filin, where did I say Jesus "hates" gay people?
12/12/2012 6:03:13 PM
Keep thumping that bible, it's not going to help you.
12/13/2012 7:35:54 PM
Yeah yeah! Throw the queer out! Get those filthy Mexicans back to the wasteland they came from! Damn prostitutes they must be! Prosecute the bastards! Keep DOMA! Exterminate those filthy queers! Kick 'em to the curb! Not this one, but Barabbas! Crucify him, crucify him!
12/21/2012 9:44:30 PM