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Quote# 91326

(Several posts, a while after copy-pasta spam about how the big bang can't have happened.)

you cannot use math to prove reality. If you did, alot of stuff would be really messed up.

(Questioned.)
because math is unreliable.

(Proven wrong.)
Ok, the math in a book is absolute. But the numbers that scientist say the universe run on change. Like the speed of light is going down at a very unconstant speed.

Salamanstrom, NationStates 33 Comments [12/13/2012 4:19:24 AM]
Fundie Index: 46
WTF?! || meh
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Paler_Face

Yeah, 1+1 only equals 2 on paper. In reality it could end up being 2.3!</sarcasm>

Seriously, math is the only science that has actual proofs.

12/13/2012 4:38:03 AM

anevilmeme

Is the speed of light is slowing meme ever going to die?

How does the fundtard mind work that skewing reality into something unrecognizable make more sense than admitting their big ass book of fairy tails isn't a literal scientific document?

12/13/2012 4:39:03 AM

gravematter

There is a hypothesis posited by some scientists that the speed of light has changed slightly over billions of years. However, even if this turns out to be true, it doesn't change the maths involved. It doesn't change the definition of numbers. Numbers are what we define them to be.

12/13/2012 4:43:39 AM

anti-nonsense

lolno.

12/13/2012 4:44:59 AM

Joey

The speed of light is not changing. If it were, we would certainly know about it, since GPS satellites have to be programmed to account for time dilation.

12/13/2012 4:48:06 AM

Hoplite

There is a theory that the speed of light has changed from after the big bang, to another stage of the universe's expansion, yes. What posits this? Mathematics, bitch.

Edit: not referring to c-decay (speed of light in a vacuum).

12/13/2012 4:54:37 AM

Tempus

C-Decay has been proven wrong, doofus.

12/13/2012 5:12:50 AM

Frostythesnowman

In order to debate successfully with theists, many of us have studied their holy books, and a recent survey showed that atheists knew more about the bible than christians.

So my question is this. Why the FUCK do you imbeciles think that you can overturn the findings of some of the most brilliant minds in human history, when you're not prepared to understand anything at all about science?

12/13/2012 5:21:22 AM

Doubting Thomas

Math is unreliable but the bible is absolute truth.

Man, I'd really hate to live in a theocracy run by these people.

And I know this guy is a Christian fundie because he's using the same lame, debunked Christian fundie argument about the speed of light slowing down.

12/13/2012 6:22:39 AM

Mister Spak

I'm stunned by the part where he notices he is proven wrong.

12/13/2012 6:39:26 AM

Kuno

@Doubting Thomas:

And I know this guy is a Christian fundie because he's using the same lame, debunked Christian fundie argument about the speed of light slowing down.

Don’t be so sure of this. A conspiracy crank I know calls himself an atheist and even an anti-theist, but recently he has started to sprout the same “Allah is a pagan moon-god”-nonsense I knew only from Chick-tracts before. He also thinks the Grand Canyon was created in a very short time and uses the same arguments as the “Noah’s flood was a real and global event”-fundies.

It seems the madness is spreading…

Also: Thanks to FSTDT I can debunk almost everything he brings up instantly without problem, to the point he refuses to argue with me…

12/13/2012 7:20:26 AM

werewolf

Like it or not, math is the language of science.

12/13/2012 7:22:29 AM

dionysus

What? The speed of light isn't decreasing. Now, light itself CAN be slowed down by going through objects (such as water) and can be stopped completely if the water is deep enough but the universal speed limit known as the speed of light hasn't changed since it became a thing. It can't. Otherwise physics would be fundamentally altered.

12/13/2012 7:23:30 AM

Swede

Someone doesn't know when it's time to stop arguing...

12/13/2012 7:32:53 AM

Jezebel's Evil Sister

If the speed of light were really "going down," wouldn't that mean that the universe is actually older than currently thought by science (and much, much older than what is taken for thought among young earth creationists)?

12/13/2012 9:16:32 AM

xyz

The speed of light has never decreased.

12/13/2012 10:15:28 AM

Anon-e-moose

"you cannot use math to prove reality. If you did, alot of stuff would be really messed up."

According to the Bible, Pi = exactly 3. Whereas, as per the ancient Greek mathematicians, who calcualted Pi with as near as dammit precision before the Bible existed...:



Even your supposedly 'omnipotent' God is gonna find his 'infinite' powers stretched by so much as thinking of making a wheel using his own 'Word's mathematical model, though.

"you cannot use math to prove reality"

The computers used for the CGI in the "Matrix" films. Now, not taking into account the fact that these films are not documentaries, the kind of number-crunching used by the computers in the first film's effects had some serious CPU/Co-math processing-taxing stuff going on. [/hyper-smartarse]

"Ok, the math in a book is absolute. But the numbers that scientist say the universe run on change"

Oh dear. Proxima Centauri has gone out. Anyone got a 50p for the meter?! [hyper-smartarse II] X3

12/13/2012 10:19:45 AM

UHM

Math is an abstract system made of numbers and simplest logic, it is only unreliable when information is rare, the system too complex or the user too stupid.

12/13/2012 12:27:14 PM

Papabear

Fundie to English translation: The math I understand (up to 3rd grade, I'm betting) is absolute, but math I don't understand is unreliable.

12/13/2012 12:34:29 PM

shykid

"because math is unreliable."

Yes, that's why rigorous proofs exist and they give the exact same result every single time.

"Ok, the math in a book is absolute. But the numbers that scientist say the universe run on change. Like the speed of light is going down at a very unconstant speed."

That's crazy talk, but either way, it's still got fuck-all to do with mathematics. Physics calculations depend upon mathematics, not vice versa. The speed of light, the universal gravitational force, or any other physical constant can be whatever the hell you want it to be, but it has absolutely zero effect on mathematics outside of the calculations that, y'know, actually use those constants.

If wild fluctuations of certain "cosmic fores" or what have you actually do start to screw around with reality to such a profound extent that it breaks mathematics as we know it and, by extension, the very foundation of logic itself, then we would probably never even have a chance to notice it, because we most likely wouldn't exist anymore. Like, seriously.

I have a BS in Mathematics, and I am currently working on a MS in the same subject, so I think I may be just a tad more likely than you to have an educated, well-reasoned opinion on mathy things. :)

...it absolutely boggles my mind how some people are fully aware that they don't know jackshit about something, yet not only do they genuinely believe that they are entitled to have their opinions on that subject respected and taken seriously—which is utterly ridiculous in its own right—but they also have the gall to think that their ignorant opinions are seriously on equal footing with someone who's actually highly qualified and well-versed in the subject at hand. How fucking arrogant can you be, seriously?

12/13/2012 2:37:26 PM

Auggziliary

Math is like.. the definition of reliable.

12/13/2012 2:53:50 PM

Old Viking

The speed of your light is going down.

12/13/2012 4:04:32 PM

the_ignored

Wasn't there some xian problem with "linear algebra" some time ago?

12/13/2012 5:20:24 PM



After reading the last paragraph several times. I get what you mean.

The measured speed of light changes throughout human history because of better instruments.

12/13/2012 6:19:45 PM

Kevin Klawitter

@Anon-e-moose

Okay, the whole "Bible says Pi=3" thing has been bugging me for a while.

First of all, where? When I tried looking it up, the results were only something indirect, through the records of the dimensions of a building or whatever.

Second, have you ever encountered a Bible-thumper who has claimed Pi=3 because of the bible? If you haven't, then it is something of a non-sequitur to use it as a response, even if it is totally illogical.

Sorry for going off-topic, but I've been wondering about this for a while.

12/13/2012 8:45:08 PM
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