Quote# 92087

Brennan: "Isn’t the demand for freedom from all morality and a license to do whatever one’s carnal desires crave the real reason why most atheists deny the existence of a divine lawgiver?"

D'Souza: "I think it is the main reason, the desire to escape not just sexual rules but also to escape from ultimate moral judgment. Marx once said that religion is the opiate of the masses. He implied that religion was a kind of refuge. I turn this around and note that atheism is the opiate of the morally corrupt. Atheists try and escape the idea of judgment by getting rid of the judge."

Dinesh D'Souza and Phil Brennan, Newsmax 41 Comments [1/16/2013 4:33:45 AM]
Fundie Index: 47

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Stike of Seville

This is hardly fundy. Are we now scraping the barrel of religious-inspired commentaries to get quotes in?

1/16/2013 4:53:02 AM


Morality=/= Christianity, or any other religion for that matter.
Oh, and the starving masses in third-world countries say that your 'judge' is a prick of the highest order.

1/16/2013 4:53:33 AM


It is standard fundy. But, it is so oft repeated and incorrect as to be boring fundy.

1/16/2013 5:03:07 AM


Ah, the usual "atheists are immoral because they don't want to believe in God (who they know is really there)" nonsense.

Pretty standard fundie fare.

1/16/2013 5:09:59 AM

Filin De Blanc

Bear in mind this is the same Dinesh D'Souza who professed to be engaged to another woman while still legally married to his wife.

1/16/2013 5:26:40 AM

Yeah, like Filin pointed out, this is all about the delicious irony.

1/16/2013 5:30:49 AM


Dinesh, history will judge us all. You say we want to be immoral, but the prisons are still filled with people saying they're Christians.

1/16/2013 5:47:24 AM

D Laurier

Wow... And I thought it was because I just couldnt keep on forcing myself to buy the notion of a god...

1/16/2013 7:10:50 AM

Doubting Thomas

No, the real reason we deny the existence of a divine lawgiver is that there is zero evidence to show that such a being exists, and plenty of evidence to show that he was invented by superstitious goatherders and continues to be re-invented by crazed, gullible, and superstitious followers of a 2000-year-old religion.

Freedom of sexuality and from divine eternal punishment is just a fringe benefit.

1/16/2013 7:13:00 AM

Hasan Prishtina

Funny D'Souza should mention Marx; most Marxist countries were rather prudish about moral issues.

1/16/2013 7:16:32 AM

Tolpuddle Martyr

Guess D'Souza's judge was sleeping when religious people were running about committing atrocities in his name!

1/16/2013 7:25:33 AM


Or there is no judge and you're just grasping at straws to fill your lust for control over others.

1/16/2013 7:49:18 AM


"Religion is the opiate of the morally corrupt."
Fixed that for you.

1/16/2013 8:12:33 AM


Prove your god exists, interacts in any way with humans, and that he really, really gives a damn what I think/do/say. Then we'll talk.

Until then, shut the fuck up you gibbering lunatics.

1/16/2013 8:13:32 AM


@Stike of Seville

So, implying that an entire group of people believes what they do because they are immoral is suddenly not fundie? Replace "atheist" with "Jew" and "divine lawgiver" with "Jesus" and see if you still think this isn't fundie.

1/16/2013 8:25:10 AM


D'Souza, the person who once called agnosticism the 'dumbest position of all', is "thinking" again.

I've seen enough.

1/16/2013 8:49:52 AM

Rabbit of Caerbannog

"...not just to escape sexual rules..."

Oh lord that's rich coming from an adulterer.

1/16/2013 8:49:57 AM


Says the people who feel you can be absolved of any sin so matter how great or small, by making pretty with Jesus, shrugging your shoulders and saying "Not perfect, but forgiven."

1/16/2013 8:59:29 AM

Stike of Seville

"So, implying that an entire group of people believes what they do because they are immoral is suddenly not fundie? Replace "atheist" with "Jew" and "divine lawgiver" with "Jesus" and see if you still think this isn't fundie."

If you replace defining words you change the context and therefore invalidate your premise.

1/16/2013 9:19:00 AM


There are very few people who demand "freedom from all morality" for the very good reason that they would be pulling the carpet out from under themselves with such a demand. Such people are just nihilists. A freedom from hypocritical "morality" of the kind enshrined in religions on the other hand is a reasonable request.
"One's carnal desires". Let's be honest here. What are one's carnal desires? 1. To impregnate ladies. 2. To relieve tension. Both of these are simply a part of nature, and as such, should not be feared or hedged about with superstition or contempt.
The "real reason" why atheists deny the existence of God is because they don't find any evidence for it.

1/16/2013 9:19:36 AM


Theists always act like, in the absence of God, you can do whatever you want and get away with it, in this life at least. But examine this idea and you'll see that it isn't true.
First of all, you'll come up against secular laws, enacted by parliaments and other bodies, and be subject to prosecution and potential imprisonment.
Secondly, if you consistently behave immorally people will not like you. You will have no friends and people will shun you.
So, in other words, with certain kinds of immoral behaviour, you will be judged. You'll be judged by your fellow humans.
If you lack belief in a deity, you also lack belief in the validity of his divine commands. It does not follow that you become amoral, in the sense of voiding all the divine laws, for the obvious reason that some of those commands coincide with secular law, and some with reason.
The humanist case is 1, that all the rules which don't coincide with reason ought to be done away with. 2, that rules should be not be multiplied unnecessarily.
Luckily, there is a minimalist ethical principle, which predates the Abrahamic religions and agrees with reason, and that is "the golden rule".

1/16/2013 9:49:22 AM


A man that has been deliberately starved might gorge himself till he is sick. A man that has been hidebound and restricted by enforced chastity might engage in a debauch. So a person released from rule-based morality might act in a licentious way. But that licentiousness is an EFFECT and a PART of the rule-based morality itself, and so are the nihilistic energies released. None of it has anything to do with a properly considered humanist ethics, which is not about license and excess but reasoned moderation, the "nothing in excess" of the Greeks.

1/16/2013 9:50:00 AM


The only people harping on about "ultimate moral judgment" are people who crave control over their peers and want to feel righteous about it. Fuck off.

1/16/2013 9:52:27 AM


I suppose that some might use atheism as an excuse for hedonism. But the idea that they would use a desire for hedonism as an excuse for atheism is ridiculous. Brennan and D'Souza are suggesting that atheists actually believe in God but pretend they don't in order to avoid cognitive dissonance.

1/16/2013 10:23:11 AM

Mister Spak

"Isn’t the demand for freedom from all morality and a license to do whatever one’s carnal desires crave the real reason why most atheists deny the existence of a divine lawgiver?"

No, the real reason is there is no evidence.

1/16/2013 10:27:16 AM

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