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Quote# 92123

"Mountains have been built up and torn down again and again. Tectonic plates have collided and divided again and again. This cannot happen in 6000 years time."

Actually it could and did take place over just a couple of years. The Bible says God raised up the mountains, leveled the plains, created valleys. So how do you know this "cannot happen in 6,000 years"? Were you there? Are you denying the power of God. Were you aware that Granite (the most abundant rock in our crust) MUST be formed within minutes to have the the particles, appearance, strength, etc. that it does?

ded2daworld, Christian Chat 47 Comments [1/17/2013 4:39:54 AM]
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Submitted By: Kilgore
WTF?! || meh
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Indicible

1) Citation needed on the granite formation
2) You claim your god created the Earth and universe. Were you there? Were any of the people who wrote the bible there?

1/17/2013 5:16:52 AM

Galthar

Now that last sentence is something I'd want to get citation on.

For the rest of it I'd need a bit more.

1/17/2013 5:18:11 AM

Mudak

Here's a serious question: I don't get the "were you there" argument used by creationists. It's so easily thrown right back at the asker who claims, well, just about anything to do with god, that they seriously shouldn't even consider it as a debate tactic. Why use it?

I get it. No one was there when (whatever) happened. So which explanation should we utilize to explain how and why it did? The one supported by all of the available evidence, or the one written in an ancient book of questionable authorship?

1/17/2013 5:36:18 AM

Grey Wolf

@Mudak: If you try to throw back the question to them, they will answer that "God was there" and that He wrote it down faithfully in the Bible, thus you Must Believe (tm).

1/17/2013 5:42:26 AM

Justanotheratheist

"Are you denying the power of God"

Yep, pretty much.

P.S. How long did it take the rock which passes for your brain to form?

1/17/2013 5:43:19 AM

Titania

@Maduk, yeah, I've always wondered how they can seriously use the "Where you there?" defense. No, I wasn't and niether were they.

1/17/2013 5:52:36 AM

Doubting Thomas

I'm guessing this idiot never took a geology course. But if he's just going to invoke the "Goddidit" clause, then there's no use debating him. You can't debate reality with someone who invokes fantasy.

1/17/2013 6:40:21 AM

Mister Spak

How do you know it did happen? Were you there? Are you denying observable reality? Were you aware that basalt, the most abundant rock in our crust MUST be formed over hundreds of millions of years to have the particle, strength, magnetic fields, sediment overlay etc that it does?

To all the were you there commenters:

How do you know God was there and wrote it in the bible? Were you there?

1/17/2013 6:50:02 AM

Pule Thamex

I know it's only Christian chit-chat, but please bear in mind that "The Bible says" = "The deranged babbling of spittle-flecking madmen says".

Keep up those delusions and next thing you know you'll be disposing of your excrement directly on to the street.

1/17/2013 6:51:38 AM

tmarcl

@Mudak

Here's a serious question: I don't get the "were you there" argument used by creationists. It's so easily thrown right back at the asker who claims, well, just about anything to do with god, that they seriously shouldn't even consider it as a debate tactic. Why use it?

I get it. No one was there when (whatever) happened. So which explanation should we utilize to explain how and why it did? The one supported by all of the available evidence, or the one written in an ancient book of questionable authorship?


Because in the fundie mindset, the bible is 100% dictated by god. So, if Genesis 1:1 says "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth..." in their minds, it must mean that in the beginning, etc. Since they believe that god is real and that he dictated the bible, then he was there, and the words they have in the bible are an accurate representation of what happened.


1/17/2013 6:58:43 AM

SpukiKitty

"The Bible says God raised up the mountains, leveled the plains, created valleys."

So who's to say that The Supreme Power didn't do it over millions of years?!

Really! Plenty of religious people, many of them devout Christians, have accepted evolution & a billions-year-old Earth with no determent to to their faith...why can't you guys?

Darn zealots! They just want CONTROL...that's all!

Oh, to answer that one commenter ('Da Rat Bastid') in another thread (Quote# 91844) that explained the "importance" of a literal interpretation of Genesis to these goobers ('Well, without a literal Genesis story, there's no literal Adam and Eve, therefore no original sin, therefore no need for Jesus to be crucified. Without the creation story being literal, the rest of the book becomes pointless, and it would seem that creationists realize this, even if only on a subconscious level.')

[CONT...]


1/17/2013 7:03:18 AM

SpukiKitty

[...CONT.]
I understand Rat's explanation. However, taken metaphorically, the tale still makes sense:

* God created the universe, then the critter-animals, then human-animals (apart from some discrepancies & some stuff being out of order, this is roughly the order science says).
* Humanity evolved enough to become fully sapient, developing a sense of ethics or "right & wrong" (the Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil).
* Humanity tended to choose to do wrong a lot, humans often give in to their negative side & act like selfish jerks (sin).
* Jesus came to help us overcome or negate the effects of the negative aspects of our human nature while giving us some nice lessons in ethics & attempting to reform the Jewish Faith into something less Demiurgic.

When I was a Christian, this is how I saw it.

1/17/2013 7:04:13 AM



So you want me to prove that a magic man who can do anything couldn't have done something? Talk about defining gawd to existence...

1/17/2013 7:06:13 AM

Hasan Prishtina

Actually it could and did take place over just a couple of years.

That's not what it says in Genesis 1, ded2daworld. Are you denying the power of God?

1/17/2013 7:10:53 AM

rubber chicken

Do you complain about CSI ? If not, why not?

1/17/2013 7:13:22 AM

dionysus

No it was Cthulhu who came from the depths of the oceans and moved the land around just because he could. If you reject that then how do you know it didn't happen? Were you there? Are you denying the power of Cthulhu?

@Grey Wolf

@Mudak: If you try to throw back the question to them, they will answer that "God was there" and that He wrote it down faithfully in the Bible, thus you Must Believe (tm).

Yeah, but you can immediately throw that question at them again and ask "Were you there when God wrote the Bible? If not then how do you know that God wrote it?"

1/17/2013 7:19:57 AM

Beltaine

Re: "Were you there?"

My usual response to that one is to ask them if they believe in modern forensics.

If it were a child, on the other hand, I would give them a better question. "How do you know?".


1/17/2013 7:23:28 AM

Broton of Loch Ness

I nominate this guy for the most appropriate user name award!

1/17/2013 7:46:44 AM

Horsefeathers

"Actually it could and did take place over just a couple of years. The Bible says God raised up the mountains, leveled the plains, created valleys. So how do you know this 'cannot happen in 6,000 years'? Were you there?"

We can measure the rate at which tectonic plates move. We know that they do not move quickly enough for mountains to form in just 6,000 years.

"Are you denying the power of God."

Yes, I am.

"Were you aware that Granite (the most abundant rock in our crust) MUST be formed within minutes to have the the particles, appearance, strength, etc. that it does?"

And?

1/17/2013 7:52:30 AM

farpadokly

I'm so sick of that "The Bible says (followed by some completely incorrect thing)" business. What other book full of wrong information could someone get away with constantly citing as though it's automatically right?
"Earth bore first of all one equal to herself, starry Heaven, so that he should cover her all about, to be a secure seat for ever for the blessed gods; and she bore the long Mountains, pleasant haunts of the goddesses, the Nymphs who dwell in mountain glens; and she bore also the undraining Sea and its furious swell, not in union of love". Hesiod's Theogony, Lines 126-131.
Here it clearly states that the mountains were born from "broad-breasted Earth". Modern science backs this up because igneous rocks are common in mountain formation.

1/17/2013 8:21:45 AM

farpadokly

I should point out also that Hesiod wrote this with direct inspiration from the Muses of Mount Helicon, who are inspired by Zeus himself.

1/17/2013 8:25:21 AM

Anon-e-moose

"The Bible says God raised up the mountains, leveled the plains, created valleys. So how do you know this "cannot happen in 6,000 years"? Were you there?"

Genesis. As described in the Bible.

Were you there?

Seeing as purely eye-witness 'My word against theirs' testimonies are notoriously unreliable, least of all second/third etc-hand claims (which is why CCTV exists, natch) and therefore aren't admissable in a court of law, thus rendering even the Bible itself, written many years after the supposed 'fact' as even more inadmissable in anything it 'claims' in court, just three words completely annihilates your right to even think your 'Beliefs' are nothing more than delusions: Were you there?

Now, why couldn't your 'God' - before he 'created' heaven & Earth - have created the HD video camera, to record proceedings (seeing as he's supposedly 'Omniscient'), to prove to future generations with the necessary technology & thus back up the veracity of his so-called 'Word'?! [/hyper-sarcasm] It's the reason why the phrase 'Pics or it didn't happen' exists on the interwebz. And beyond.

Which is why, if there were a 'Reverse Scopes Monkey Trial' - in which fundie Christian religion itself was put on trial for it's very right to exist - it wouldn't last very long. For a start, all it'd take is for the prosecuting lawyer to demand of the fundie clergy there (And they must reply; no '5th Amendment' for them, least their reliance upon such be implied proof that the Atheists' case be proven right from the very start) 'If your 'God' is Omnipotent, then I call him to the witness stand now'; and when he doesn't appear in physical form (and no, not 'Jesus'; he's not allowed) to the satisfaction of the court & in the legally alotted time, after such a directly-demanded subpoena, seeing as 'God' is Omnipresent...! >:D

Moral: Nietzsche was right after all. To borrow from your own screename: 'God'? He is ded2us.

1/17/2013 8:43:41 AM

freako104

You know the question "were you there" can be applied to you as well yes? Also were the writers of the Bible there when world was created?

1/17/2013 10:11:15 AM

D Laurier

To re-arrange the geography of the whole earth in just a couple years... Surfing in magma.

Basalt is the most abundant rock in the Earth's crust. Both granite AND basalt are volcanic rocks, and take a long time to cool after forming.

1/17/2013 10:39:04 AM

nazani14

According to Bishop Usher's chronology, there would have been people present within a few days after the creation of the Earth, and humans were around except for the brief flood episode. Yet, nobody in the Bible ever recorded or told tales of the Alps or Himalayas forming, meteors making bus-sized craters all over the Earth, or liquid rock oozing up from cracks in the earth to form granite.

1/17/2013 11:04:34 AM
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