[On pregnancy and abortion]
Passing a kidney stone is comparable to the pains in giving birth.
So I have put myself in their shoes and thought, "I would pee out some kidney stones if I knew it would save a life"
35 comments
The offer is meaningless until or unless he actually has experienced that kind of pain and has some kind of idea what he would be setting himself up for.
In fact, it's meaningless anyway; since there is no known "lifesaving" aspect of passing a kidney stone (other than for the one who has it, perhaps), the offer is completely and absurdly fatuous.
So thanks, Kahalachan, for a perfectly meaningless offer of an utterly useless service.
~David D.G.
Of course, the fact this guy might *have* to pass a stone implies there *could* be a *flaw* in his intelligent design, eh?
Unless, of course, God puts those stones there to throw at heritics, gays, and muslims when ya run out of regular rocks.
Passing stones doesn't save a life, except perhaps your own. Giving birth does save a life, technically, but by this token, sex is a massacre. Oh, those poor gametes! Why doesn't anyone care about them? Why do conservatives whine about aborting ONE fetus, when the mere creation of that fetus required the destruction of thousands of innocent sperm cells! For all practical purposes, birth CREATES life.
But seriously, I think that the "abortion yes, or abortion no" is too simplified. No middle position? I think that abortion of very late-term fetuses should be made illegal anything after the point where the fetus has the mental capacity and awareness of an actual baby. Benefit of the doubt goes to the mother. Of course, for the first 7 or 8 months or so, what's wrong with abortion? Clumps of cells can suffer? I doubt it. With no awareness and no ability to suffer or enjoy, they have no interests, and therefore no rights. If a 2-week-old embryo has a right to life, the same should apply for individual gametes. Men would be arrested for having sex, and women would be arrested for NOT having sex. Anyone like that idea? No? Then what's with the anti-abortion nuts?
I don't think so, Dragon. This is from the same guy who said, of domestic abuse, "It takes 2 to ruin a relationship."
My guess is that he just doesn't have much respect for women.
Anne: I like the points that you make about a gamete's right to life, but I'll contrast one for you...
Brain activity is measured typically at 22 weeks, so it's about 5 1/2 months.
Some could register earlier, but at two weeks?
But why carry for 5-6 months then say "Nah, I don't think so." I also seriously wonder where "pro-lifers" get their statistics about most women carrying to 8 1/2 months and deciding to chicken out.
Kahalachan, I'd suggest you try passing a proper size kidney stone before making a statement like that.
(To his credit, though, he's one of the better theists in Myspace.)
Anne, have you never heard "Every sperm is sacred" by Monty Python? Not quite the official Catholic line, but it's pretty close.
Rime: "I also seriously wonder where "pro-lifers" get their statistics about most women carrying to 8 1/2 months and deciding to chicken out."
Probably the same place most fundies get their statistics - divine revelation. Though they probably make up a very small percentage of overall cases, later-term (but certainly not 32 weeks) abortions are the ones that provide the most "sickening" footage, which is perfect for making appeals to emotion (something that all single-issue groups know very well).
Mr. Turquoise
> In fact, it's meaningless anyway;
> since there is no known "lifesaving"
> aspect of passing a kidney stone
You never know, David. Perhaps we should give our dear friend Kahalachan some kidney stones and measure how many abortions occur before, during, and after his, uh, charitable efforts?
Yeah, it's comparable... if the kidney stone is about the size of a bowling ball. Anyone want to bet that if Kahalachan were to pass such a kidney stone, they wouldn't repeat the experience to "save a life"?
OK, if it wouldn't be a problem could people refer to me as "Anonymous" or "Anon" if something shorter is needed? I think I actually stole this name from someone a while back, and I really hafta change it.
It freaks me out to be referred to as "Anne." I need a better joke on the word "Anonymous." Any suggestions?
Sorry Unkno N. (a bit tricky to type that one, but I don't want to cause any further offense). I certainly didn't mean to "freak you out".
Anyway, "Every sperm is sacred" was performed in the the film "Monty Python's The Meaning of Life". If you can't be bothered to rent the film, you can see an animated flash movie for the song here:
http://newgrounds.com/portal/view/265798
Mr. Turuqoise
ETA: I should warn you some people may find that particular flash movie offensive (and it is NOT worksafe).
"So I have put myself in their shoes"
I'm sorry, is this guy suggesting that the pain of giving birth is the only reason why women might "chicken out" and abort? Cos I'm telling you right now, an abortion is certainly not painless.
Haha! I dare Kahalachan to say this in an OBGYN office with a room full of mothers. Especially those of us who had natural child birth. It'd be interesting to see if he'd leave with all his limbs still attached.
Passing a kidney stone is NOTHING compared to giving birth. The mechanics are just vastly different, unless the stone weighs several punds and has considerable length and diamter to it. Also, I'd love to see a man deal with getting an episiotomy.
I can see him in the delivery room with is wife (I hope he's not married).
"Oh honey, quit yer whining. I passed that kidney stone and didn't complain now did I? Shut up! Bill Dance's Outdoors is on. Go grab me a beer while your at it. Stop bitching about your contractions. I'm missing out on a good day to go fishing thanks to your damn labor."
I strongly doubt that he has a wife. The funny thing is, women who will accept a "dominating" man to "provide for them" are about as easy to find as evidence for creationism, at least outside the third world.
And, it seems Unkno N. isn't too good either, since it's difficult to type? It was only a placeholder, anyway. Julian- Thanks for "Anon E. Mouse," can I steal it? Or I could just call myself Maronan. Maronan is a character I made up for a story I told to my little sister some time ago. It has no major importance, but it seems to also be the name of a town in Queensland.
Though I haven't had either a kidney stone nor a baby (and I doubt the latter will happen, given my physiology), I have to point out that comparing the weight of the two is a rather poor argument. You've got to remember that kidney stones' pain infliction comes when they're passing through the ureter... which is approximately 3 MILLIMETERS in diameter (The cervix, by contrast, can dilate to about 10 centimeters). And the baby's weight has the addition of its body (which is much less wide). You'd have to ask someone who's had both to see which really is more painful, but it seems to be somewhat fallacious to try and compare them by weight, or size. Kidney stones also are irregularly shaped.
I was curious, so I tried to find out which one hurt more by looking it up. Though there isn't any manner of survey on the internet, most people who'd claimed to half both said they were roughly equal in pain. More seemed to say that the kidney stone was more painful than giving birth than vice versa, actually (though I'll admit that going on the internet for anecdotal evidence is about the poorest research possible, but I couldn't think of another way).
Late term abortions are already illegal in most places, unless for medical reasons. Whenever a woman gets a late-term abortion, it's because of some tragic circumstance that she can't help (the baby died before being born, giving birth would kill her, etc...) Very, very few women want to carry a baby almost to term and then abort it, that just doesn't work logically or emotionally.
That said, this man can't get pregnant, so I don't think he should have a say in a woman's reproductive rights.
I vaguely remember an episode of "Friends" where one character was giving birth and a male character was, simultaneously, passing a stone. They cut between the two events to give the impression that the two experiences were similar. I suppose they the writers thought they were being funny.
I wonder if that is where Kahalachan got this idea. If so then, dang, his sources are even more insipid than Philip-George's.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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