Quote# 95965

[You do not have an objective moral standard.

For instance: baby-killing is OK if god orders it, is it not? William Lane Craig seems to think so.]

Of course. Whatever God commands is absolutely moral because God himself is the absolute standard for good. In fact, if God really did command to do something, such as kill babies, then it would be immoral not to do it. And on what basis do you have to disagree with this outside of mere opinion?

Josef, Jason Lisle's Blog 65 Comments [8/14/2013 3:36:56 AM]
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Submitted By: the_ignored

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Let's see that defence stand up in court, you horrible, horrible cunt!

8/14/2013 3:39:51 AM

Qazamir McSmarty Britches

And on what basis do you have to disagree with this outside of mere opinion?

Because, judging from what you yourself said, God is a sociopath.

You also might be one too if you think this is a valid argument.

8/14/2013 3:49:55 AM

Raised by Horses

Thank you for proving our point.

8/14/2013 3:55:15 AM

Nomen Nescio

by this "standard", blind obedience is a moral virtue --- indeed, is the ONLY moral virtue. but that's delegating all your choices onto an arbitrary third party while refusing responsibility for your own actions; that negates your own status as a moral agent, it effectively reduces your self to a mere tool of the real moral agent onto whom you've delegated all your decisions. besides being profoundly childish and cowardly, how can this ever be called a theory of ethics?

8/14/2013 3:57:51 AM


To answer your question, how about basic human decency?

8/14/2013 4:00:21 AM

Atheism 2.0

Josef and his god are nutty puppies.

8/14/2013 4:15:45 AM


This type of thinking is behind some of the most heinous acts in human history. I am always shocked that people still think this way.

8/14/2013 4:20:12 AM

Da Rat Bastid

"To answer your question, how about basic human decency?"

That's just it, though: in WLC's view, basic human decency can't exist without his god.

8/14/2013 4:29:36 AM


Fucking psychopaths. They'd stick a knife in your back and rape your children if they felt like it.

8/14/2013 4:46:38 AM


Along with the utter stupidity of this OP's statement, I'd sadly have to say there's one famous Pro-Choice argument down the drain (The Hosea argument, the Canaanite genocide stuff, that verse in Psalms, etc.). Phooey-face!

8/14/2013 5:08:06 AM


In other words, "I was just following orders" and "God/The Devil made me do it" are now both legal defences that the courts cannot deny or override. If a criminal uses those, they have to be immediately absolved of personal blame.

8/14/2013 5:09:26 AM

Doubting Thomas

So God is moral because God is moral. This argument is so perfectly circular that scientists calibrate their instruments with it.

8/14/2013 5:11:13 AM


8/14/2013 5:15:40 AM


Further evidence that religion works to eradicate the natural moral sense of its followers and replace it with blind obedience to authority.

8/14/2013 5:20:20 AM

So you need some book to tell you killing babies is bad?

And whatever your god commands is moral?
Like slavery, allowing you to beat the slaves as badly as you want as long as they don't die within a few days?
Like beating and stoning unruly children?
Like killing homosexuals?
Like oppressing women?
Like forcing a woman to marry her rapist?
Like killing a bunch of people, men, women, yet allowing the virgins to live as entertainment for the troops?

Yup, I'd say that's absolutely moral, just, fair, and loving.

How did we ever continue to exist as a society before the bible? Wouldn't we have killed all the kids causing the human race to die off?

You don't get to pass it off as 'well, that was Old Testament law, and doesn't apply' otherwise you have to also throw out the 10 commandments, as those are Old Testament laws, too.

8/14/2013 5:25:26 AM

And yet that book's moral code somehow doesn't stop catholic priests from raping kids..and the church from intentionally covering it up to cover its own ass....

8/14/2013 5:30:37 AM


(emph-ass-is added):

"Of course. Whatever God commands is absolutely moral because God himself is the absolute standard for good. In fact, if God really did command to do something, such as kill babies, then it would be immoral not to do it. And on what basis do you have to disagree with this outside of mere opinion?"

Your own Scripture.

Well, in that case we'll hear no more from you lot about Abortion, then.

Not only does your own 'God's absolute standard for 'good' forces you to not have the right to so much as an 'opinion' about anything in perpetuity, Romans 13:1-5, coupled with Roe vs. Wade, doubly forces you lot to STFU in perpetuity.

And that's your 'moral standard' that says so. No 'opinion' from we Atheists required. Just the objective facts, ma'am. [/"Dragnet"]

8/14/2013 5:40:18 AM


One of these days, you are likely to be locked up. The only question is whether the walls will be hard or quilted.

8/14/2013 5:44:15 AM

Pule Thamex

Certainly, baby killing would be OK if, and that's a big if, God ordered it, also assuming that His orders were worthy of following.

But firstly, you'd have to prove that God exists outside of the rabid imagination of wannabe murdering plonkers.

And secondly, even if you somehow managed to prove that God exists (of course, that would be a miracle) then you'd have to show that God justifiably is a murderous psychopath and that He is so mighty that humanity has no choice but to toady to Him, indulging His every whim.

By now, the whole thing starts to make the unhinged clowns sound like dangerous lunatics seeking validation of their desperate and violent urges by utilizing a magic sky fairy as a worthy example of frothing madness.

8/14/2013 5:56:24 AM

Rob aka Mediancat

So you're not a moral being. You're a mindless slave.

8/14/2013 6:01:07 AM


I've always wondered how anyone can tell that God is talking to them and not some demon. I can see a pattern though. If you're being told to be tolerant toward gays and minorities, it's Satan. If you're being told to murder people, it's clearly God.

8/14/2013 6:02:50 AM

Dr. Shrinker

And fundamentalists wonder why they don't get the respect they think they deserve.

8/14/2013 6:08:37 AM


Proof that morality does exist seperately from religion.

8/14/2013 6:15:28 AM

Hasan Prishtina

Josef, there is a discipline called Christian ethics; I have a friend who teaches it at a good liberal arts college. Christian ethics actually tries to grapple with the problem of ethics, examining what ethics is and looking at Christian and other writers on the subject. You, on the other hand, are not interested in any of that fretting over scruples. You have the moral fiber of an SS guard.

8/14/2013 6:22:28 AM


So ifI kill you and your family and claim God commanded it, you would die happy?
how do you prove that?

"god told me to skin you alive..."- Dead Kennedys

8/14/2013 6:26:17 AM

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