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Quote# 9720

There is no excuse EVER for partial birth abortion. The procedure is NEVER used to protect the life of the mother. The procedure itself is very stressful on the mothers physical body. If the mother were in such imminent danger, why wouldn't they just c-section? And you wouldn't have to kill the fetus either?

TCR84, Sean Hannity Discussion Forum 27 Comments [2/22/2006 12:00:00 AM]
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Sierra

Because, you know, c-sections aren't stressful on the mother's body at all.

/was born by c-section.

2/22/2006 12:23:57 AM

DrunkMonkey

Hmm, non-invasive abortion or complete opening of the mother's abdomen? Which could possibly be more stressful?

/was also born by c-section.

2/22/2006 1:25:37 AM

augias

I would like to point out though that the partial birth abortion procedure is illegal in every other country of the world, as far as I know. At least in Europe.

2/22/2006 2:02:45 AM

Dragon

what's partial birth abortion?

2/22/2006 2:12:22 AM

augias

http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/diagram.html

that's what it is. The medical term is \"Intact dilation and extraction\"

see also
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial_birth_abortion

2/22/2006 2:15:23 AM

Sierra

Augias, could you provide support for that? I can't imagine why using D&X to remove a dead 20 week old fetus would be illegal, especially in countries like China that really don't seem to have a problem with abortion.

2/22/2006 2:28:12 AM

Gadren

But, isn't it that in partial-birth abortion, that the baby/fetus/whatever is still alive beforehand?

2/22/2006 2:37:00 AM

Mandrake

As I understand it, the problem is not with using a D&X to remove a dead fetus, it's with using it to remove an fetus which is halfway through gestation and might be viable if delivered.

2/22/2006 2:38:17 AM

Sierra

Partial-birth abortion is not a medical term. The person I was responding to said that the procedure, which she termed dilation and extraction, was, without any qualification, illegal in every other country.

2/22/2006 2:54:20 AM

Julian


I know one person who had to late term abort for medical reasons - primarily those of the child.

It was delivered as an induced birth and died naturally in her arms after 2 breaths. That was 5 years ago and she's still fucked up about it. (not criticism)

Don't confuse euthanasia with abortion. If it wasn't quite as malformed; don't pretend it's fairer in God's eyes to let it die in agony over months hooked up to machines and never know the touch of its mother. Actually - just don't comment on shit you know nothing about!

2/22/2006 6:43:03 AM

Julian

(addressed to TCR obviously)

2/22/2006 7:25:11 AM

Meexer

I know of very few groups that in support of ever aborting after 20 weeks, and I don't think I know of any group that supports D&X on anyone of 20 weeks gestation unless both the mother and child are in deadly danger...but I guess it is easier to fight over something that is a non-issue, instead of dealing with the real issue of preventing the reasons for abortions-lack of money, lack of adoptive parents, lack of education, lack of healthcare, etc...

2/22/2006 9:20:54 AM

Rosie

The mothers (sic) physical body? As opposed to... her non-physical body?

2/22/2006 1:17:14 PM

augias

allright, let me rephrase what I wanted to say before:
As I understand it, \"partial birth abortion\" can be used quite late in pregnancy, and was sometimes used in the early third trimester. Where I come from (Germany), abortions can only be performed the first six months of pregnancy, and certainly not by sucking the baby's brain out. Legislation should be similar in other european countries

I have no idea about legislation in China though...

I heard that D&X only made up a very small percentage of all performed abortions though. Pro-lifers just like to talk about it because it's so gross.

2/22/2006 3:28:21 PM

David D.G.

augias #18148

<< Legislation should be similar in other european countries. >>

---------------

I'm not trying to inflame anything here, but just asking for clarification; augias, in the line quoted above, when you say \"should be,\" do you mean that you believe the legislation to be along those lines already, or that it isn't and ought to be?


~David D.G.

2/22/2006 4:49:23 PM

augias

I mean that it probably is illegal in other european countries, and that it never was legal to perform an abortion with that technique in Germany.
Germany is one of the more liberal countries in Europe, so if anything legislation would be more strict in Italy or France or Poland etc. because they're more conservative and more catholic countries

There isn't a lot of argument about abortion going on there though.

From what I hear there are alternatives to the technique, no? And right now it's still allowed if the mother's health is in danger?

In my opinion, I think the method goes a little too far, especially if it's performed in the third trimester (as I pointed out, in Germany there are no abortions after the second trimester, because after that they say that the baby is too developed, feels pain etc, so it's considered inhumane).

It all depends on where you think the human life starts:
1 - with the sperm and the egg merging (which creates a new DNA)
2 - with the baby developing certain cognitive abilities, and reacting to its surroundings, being able to hear etc. (third trimester as far as I know)

2/22/2006 7:25:11 PM

MadSerena

Wow this is the first time i agree with a fundie here. Partial birth abortion isn't less risky for a mother than a c-section.(/is a medical intern). The alleged \"medical reasons\" don't exist at all -in my opinion- women do it because they don't want the fetus to be born, plain and simple...and i think it's a very mean thing to do to a fetus that is able to feel pain (i'm pro-choice if we are talking about early pregnancies). BTW, what Julian mentioned is an example of \"non-abortion\" pregnancy interruption, a VERY different thing...it's a completely llegitimate medical procedure, even in countries where abortion is illegal (like my country, Chile)

2/22/2006 9:17:21 PM

Caphi

I wanna join this petition!

/was born by C-section, and his sister

2/23/2006 3:18:14 AM

DoctorX

petition also joined

/Could kill Macbeth

2/23/2006 4:11:34 AM

Sierra

MadSerena - my choir teacher was married and wanted a child. When she was five months pregnant, her doctor informed her that the fetus had severe sirenomelia. If she carried the pregnancy to term, she would put her life as risk only to deliver a baby that would suffer for a few minutes before suffocating to death.

She had a partial birth abortion in the second trimester.

Was she really just being mean? Did she have an abortion because she did not want the fetus, even though she had her daughter a year later?

You may be a medical intern, but that doesn't mean your opinion negates the opinion of many other equally or more qualified doctors that oppose the ban on this (and other) types of procedures.

2/23/2006 6:11:07 AM

MadSerena

Sierra: don't get me wrong...i'm not against any form of late pregancy interruption, i'm against a specific form of pregnancy interruption. I'm not for causing innecesary suffering or risk to pregnant women, their lives (and life's quality) are very precious to me. But i can't see any benefit in \"partial birth abortion\" (in women's health) if you compare it with other forms of preg interruption...and this procedure can be used as a covered infanticide of healthy babies. BTW, I'm just stating my opinion, i'm not judging people with different POV nor i feel i own the truth

2/23/2006 9:25:34 PM

ooh_child

MadSerena, you have to understand the only other options available in this case.

Either deliver by c-section, cutting open the woman & exposing her to much more pain & chance of infection

or

Dissect the fetus in utero & remove the remains, leaving no body for the mother to mourn over.

Which would you prefer?

2/23/2006 10:34:32 PM

MadSerena

c-section...it IS safer and less traumatic than partial birth abortion. Got my point?


2/23/2006 10:53:10 PM

Aku

Madserena, you're right, D&X is never done because the baby is dead or the mother's life is threatened. All women who have D&X's have been planning to abort since the test came back positive, and decided to wait so long because they want the baby to die a painful, horrible death. Really.

3/5/2006 4:14:24 AM

clockworkgirl21

Partial birth abortion needs to be illegal everywhere. Killing it when it doesn't feel anything and when it's only a few cells is one thing. PBA is killing when it can feel pain and fight back. A lot of the time, babies killed by PBA could have survived if born.

4/8/2008 4:19:56 AM
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