[Mrs. Bacharach responded to an article by Piper Hoffman, a married but childfree Jewish woman.]
So many Jewish children, lives and families were killed and ended by Hitler, destroying generation upon generations of Jewish continuity. But if we don't have children at all, we are even worse than Hitler. We are not even giving the beautiful waiting souls a chance to lead a meaningful Jewish life. And even more so, if we don't give our children a chance to know what being Jewish means and give them a true, all-encompassing Jewish education, we are destroying Judaism at its core.
Yes, you and your husband will have to work together to figure out how to raise your children in a way that they can connect to our rich Jewish heritage that builds such a truly wonderful life.
Piper, I don't mean to hurt you at all, and I apologize if I touched a raw nerve. I was offended by your article.
[...]
Maybe, one day, Piper, our kids can have a play date? I think we would connect well and we'll have so much fun!
33 comments
Again, absolute horseshit. There is nothing in Jewish theology about reincarnation, so what souls are waiting to be born?
Besides, Bacharach sounds almost creepily self-righteous, in that very special religious manner.
@SangfroidThere is nothing in Jewish theology about reincarnation, so what souls are waiting to be born?
And cue Jon Stewart : image
So. Okay. She tells someone that they're "worse than Hitler" for not birthin' any babies and she has the nerve to say she was offended? And, apparently, Dina is just expecting this woman to change her mind based on what she's said and pop out some kids. Oh and she'd have to raise them "the right way" of course, otherwise she's destroying Judaism... Can't just have any old kids, nope.
Seriously, just not wanting to have kids is harming "beautiful souls" waiting for a mortal husk? You don't even have to get abortions or nothin' to destroy the not-born nonexistent little humans!
@Anothga: In Jewish mysticism, there's a concept of the Hall of Gaf, which contains all the yet-to-be-born souls that will ever be. In fact, the supply is finite, with the end of the world starting when the Hall is empty.
Worse than Hitler if you don't have kids? Wow, I mean, just wow.
Maybe if someone doesn't have kids then it's God's will and all that?
"But if we don't have children at all, we are even worse than Hitler."
Jewish godwin for the win.
"Yes, you and your husband will have to work together to figure out how to raise your children in a way that they can connect to our rich Jewish heritage that builds such a truly wonderful life."
No, it's the rich Catholic heritage that does this. Unless it's the rich muslim heritage.
Childfree sounds like Mrs Hoffman has chosen to NOT have any kids. She and her husband are going to work together to figure out a lot of things, but NOT how to raise their non-existent children.
You were offended that someone else made up their own mind about how to live their lives?
I haven't been able to produce any kids, and have decided not to try any artificial means, so I'm more childfree than childless. I was a bit offended by Dina's post, implying that we HAVE to have kids, or we're worse than one of the worst genocidal dictators in history. Yeah, that touched a raw nerve.
@anothga
I think they mean the souls that have not yet been born, ever. If that's the case, this is the first time I hear of some sort of souls' waiting line for being born.
You are right in that Ms. Bacharach is not terribly clear about whether she means reincarnated souls or some sort of soul assembly line. But I do remember talking to a Rabbi about this sort of thing (it was one of those atheists vs. religion debates, which I am not great at). I asked him where souls come from, and his position was that Adoni creates each new soul, fresh and new blah, blah, blah.
You and I and almost everyone else on this site are in the unenviable position of trying to make sense out of nonsense.
Dino, you besmirch the good sur name of the late great Burt Bacharach.
PROTIP: The scenario of J. Michael Straczynski's "Babylon 5", in which the Earth-Minbari War - at it's height, and in which humanity stood to be annihilated by it's then implacable enemy - suddenly stopped, as it's Grey Council discovered that the souls of past dead Minbari were being reincarnated in humans when born (and their ultimate taboo being 'Minbari do not kill Minbari'), is not a documentary.
...especially as they also discoverd that their greatest hero Valen was also the Human Earthforce officer & commander of Babylon 5, Jeffrey Sinclair. [/nerd] X3
Maybe, one day, Dino, we can have a date? I think we would connect well and we'll have so much fun watching "Babylon 5"! You could do with an education . [/Susan Ivanova, who is herself Jewish ]
A person's children do not have to be biological; the Talmud says that someone who teaches others has children: "'And you shall teach them to your sons' these are your students. We find in all cases students are called sons, as it says: 'You are sons to God your Lord.' And it also says: 'The sons of the prophets went out.' Were these indeed sons of the prophets? Were they not rather students of the prophets? From here we can learn that students are called sons." (Devarim 11:19)
I'm guessing from the tone of your manic 'you must believe what I believe so that my low self esteem and gullibility will not be totally in vain', that you are in the thrall of some crackpot religious nonsense. Who'd have thought it?
Of course, that this will lead to you supporting an undemocratic and authoritarian worldview shouldn't, and probably doesn't, trouble you. It's just one small step for inhumanity and one one giant lurch towards totalitarian zombiedom.
if we don't have children at all, we are even worse than Hitler.
Something's wrong when one starts idealizing one's worst enemy's ideologies.
"Give the Fuehrer a child" and "children for the Fuehrer" where among the many slogans promoting the conception of as many (supposeldy) blue eyed, blond haired "Aryan" children as possible to help secure the dominance of the "master race". Mothers got the "Mother's Cross" if they could pop out at least four "worthy" children (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_of_Honour_of_the_German_Mother ).
According to "the party", Childbearing for the good of the people was the top #1 priority for German women between 1933 and 1945.
This is approaching Scientology level crazy.
Even if I ever had kids Dina, I would never allow them near a miserable bitch like you.
@Skyknight
@Anothga: In Jewish mysticism, there's a concept of the Hall of Gaf, which contains all the yet-to-be-born souls that will ever be. In fact, the supply is finite, with the end of the world starting when the Hall is empty.
Wouldn't that mean that by refraining from breeding like rabbits, us childfree/childless people are doing our part to delay the end of the world?
Maybe, one day, Piper, our kids can have a play date? I think we would connect well and we'll have so much fun!
Yes, I find that accusing someone of being even worse than the most infamous mass murderer in history is a great way to break the ice.
@AdrianWouldn't that mean that by refraining from breeding like rabbits, us childfree/childless people are doing our part to delay the end of the world?
[written by anothga who forgot to log in >< )
Ok, I'm not a Jew, but I am in my 50s and childless. I hardly think that makes me worse than Hitler, but what do I know? I'm only a satanic, marxist, fascist, homosexual, pedophilic atheist.
"Piper, I don't mean to hurt you at all, and I apologize if I touched a raw nerve."
- That's why 'backspace' keys were invented. I was going to assume that you were insincere, but I'll be charitable and assume that you are stupid.
And, no, I don't care if that hurts. Self-righteous busybodies put me in that kind of mood.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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