Horseshoe Theory Award I
Disagreeing is insane: the one thing all fundies agree on
Theism is a form of mental illness that needs TREATMENT.
23 comments
In some loose sense, this makes sense. If someone says "Garblot from another galaxy told me that the world will end" we think it's a problem. When Pat Robertson does it, with a name change, he gets millions.
Believing something is not a mental illness. The closest a belief comes to mental illness is possibly being a sign of one. I seriously don't understand anti-theists. They are driven by the same extremist black-and-white thinking as religious fundamentalists.
FTR, I don't think you're mentally ill. I think you need to take a second look at whatever led you to believe this and compare it to the bigger picture. That's ultimately the worst I believe about people who say things I disagree with. (If they act like a complete ass, I'll believe that too, but that's a different subject: most people I disagree with about something don't act like a complete ass, but there are some people I otherwise agree with who do.) This is a far cry from believing people have a mental illness that needs to be 'treated' so they think the way I do.
People need to understand that religion exists on two separate levels; a theoretical level (Holy Texts) and a practical level(Actual practices). It's totally appropriate to show disdain for the text of a religion, but even a cursory look at said texts should show you that not only is the practical version of that religion very different, the theoretical version cannot actually be practiced in reality due to problems with it's internal logic. Judging the practitioners of a religion by either the theory or by cultural assumptions is pure folly.
Religions, by their very essence, resist broad strokes reasoning, of which this is a particularly problematic version.
Edit:Oh, and to the people saying that religion is a mental illness due to lack of evidence: I've seen no compelling evidence to suggest that Marx's Stateless Utopia is possible. Should we consider Marxists and Communists unstable as well?
shy says: "Believing something is not a mental illness."
Believing in something without any evidence except hearsay and anecdotal and structuring your life around that belief to the extent that you want to force everyone else to believe exactly the same way that you do IS a mental illness. It is a delusion transformed into political action.
@ Rachel
Given the relationship of Marxist dogma to reality and the fact it descends into the abyss every time it's tried, authoritarian socialists' beliefs are no more scientific while they structure their lives around those beliefs to the extent that they wish to force them on everyone else. So, by your reckoning, authoritarian socialists are mentally ill and they need treatment. Funnily enough, that's just how the Soviets dealt with those who didn't share their worldview .
@Hasan Prishtina
Americas tanking in every sense right now under a system that closer resembles the Third Reich.
Has Marxism ever been fully applied? We know Communism is a variant. I'm not being flippant I'm really asking. It might just be a case of 'Hitler was nice to animals' when it's all added up. I stand by that first sentence though, all that's left is the postage stamp mustache.
i second mr. LaVedier, basically. if it weren't for the fact that religion is societally accepted, a lot of religious faith would be clinically disordered. the majority of religious people are, fortunately, very mild cases; i wouldn't stretch so far as to call them mentally ill, myself. still, believing in invisible friends in adulthood certainly isn't sane and balanced.
the problem is that there aren't any particularly good and effective treatments available. especially not when society at large calls this disorder normal and even praiseworthy.
To an extent, sure. The only treatment, however, is exposure therapy. You can't lock them away or put them on meds. Not until they begin hearing voices in their heads, at least.
To quote Gregory House: "You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic." .
Society calls religion praiseworthy and normal. This results in a lot of people, who aren't psychotic, acting like they are.
Locking them away with meds would be cruel, just like locking away everybody who pushed the button in the Millgram experiment.
@ Canadiest
To claim of people who called themselves Marxist-Leninists, who spent years studying Marxist theory (you couldn't get into university without those years of study), thought in Marxist terms and rationalized their decisions on Marxist grounds that they didn't "fully" implement Marxism is a severe case of No True Scotsman. We wouldn't tolerate a Southern Baptist theocrat saying Christianity has never been "fully" implemented by any state; there's no reason why authoritarian socialism should get a free pass.
As for America tanking in every sense, when food, heat and light are rationed and people are randomly carted away, then we'll reach the state experienced by Nazi Germany and pretty much every country with an authoritarian socialist regime. The potential for things to get that bad are there, but we're not anywhere near yet. By this stage in the Nazi regime, after six weeks or so, civil liberties were suspended and enemies of the state could be shot openly. The one way of beating Trump is to persuade enough people to vote against him; in order to do that, what you say has to correspond with their experience of reality.
Hasan Prishtina says: "Given the relationship of Marxist dogma to reality and the fact it descends into the abyss every time it's tried, authoritarian socialists' beliefs are no more scientific while they structure their lives around those beliefs to the extent that they wish to force them on everyone else. So, by your reckoning, authoritarian socialists are mentally ill and they need treatment. Funnily enough, that's just how the Soviets dealt with those who didn't share their worldview."
That's a whole lot of straw men in a single post. I'm not interested in your politics, to be quite honest.
Hasan Prishtina says: "Given the relationship of Marxist dogma to reality and the fact it descends into the abyss every time it's tried, authoritarian socialists' beliefs are no more scientific while they structure their lives around those beliefs to the extent that they wish to force them on everyone else. So, by your reckoning, authoritarian socialists are mentally ill and they need treatment. Funnily enough, that's just how the Soviets dealt with those who didn't share their worldview."
That's a whole lot of straw men in a single post. I'm not interested in your politics, to be quite honest.
@ Rachel
Thank you for letting us know that we have to share your political views if we are to express an opinion here, even if there is plenty of evidence to support them. Given your predilection for pathologizing those with whom you disagree, I should not have been surprised.
I'm deeply uncomfortable with the idea of comparing faith to psychosis. It insults people of faith and it trivialises actual, serious medical problems. I'm bipolar and religious and to equate beliefs you don't understand or agree with with genuine illnesses that have devastating effects on people's lives is frankly not only ignorant and inconsiderate, but intellectually lazy. Check yourselves.
@Hasan Prishtina
Thanks, I did not know that about their university level.
"We wouldn't tolerate a Southern Baptist theocrat saying Christianity has never been "fully" implemented by any state"
We mostly seem to. Many RW fundies are constantly pushing for enforced Christianity on the claim it would stop all crime and violence and usher in a golden age. We can legally disagree with them but tolerating Christian Dogma is pretty much expected of Americans.
Thanks again for the Marxist upgrade, I'll adjust a bit.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
To post a comment, you'll need to Sign in or Register . Making an account also allows you to claim credit for submitting quotes, and to vote on quotes and comments. You don't even need to give us your email address.