Your word proof pre-defines a need for evidence.
Evidence or proof is subjective ... which you may find surprising but i think your getting close to by nature of your question.
If you want actual evidence of a creator.... then i suggest you spend your time making peanut butter sandwiches as this is not going to happen. In a Scientific sense.
... if you want evidence or proof of a God in a spiritual sense then you have two choices ...
- Trust the experiences of others
- Open your heart out to experience it yourself
The ball is in your court .... not ours.
37 comments
You are the one asserting the existence of God, the burden of proof is on you.
We already have proof of God's non-existance, he's not here!
"- Trust the experiences of others
- Open your heart out to experience it yourself"
Trust the experiences of others? That is just tantamount to "believe everything you hear".
As for "opening you heart", this should not only be unnecessary, but it also sounds a hell of a lot like asking people to hypnotize themselves into believing that such a experience can occur, or has already.
And then, the most hilarious part is, whose experiences should we trust, and why should we believe that it proves any given religion true (or anything beyond our own active imaginations and suggestibility)?
Your spiritual proof sounds like required naivete, or near-schizophrenia. Not quite compelling...
Not so fundie, at least he/she admits there is no actual evidence. Given that my options are trust or having "faith" as I assume that's what's meant by the heart, I'll take the peanut butter sandwich option.
So God is only spiritual [read: imaginary] and has no real effect on the universe that can be measured by science?
Congratulations, I totally agree with you. Here's a fruit bar. I'll see you later.
No you ignorant turd. Evidence is not subjective. What is subjective is arbitrarily deciding to reject evidence which doesn't support your preconceptions. And it doesn't matter what I, you, or anybody else, wants: there is no evidence for supernatural beings.
Yeah, proof generally includes evidence.
If there were a "supernatural signature" on various real-world phenomena, you can bet scientists would have noticed it. So far, nothing.
.. if you want evidence or proof of Ra in a spiritual sense then you have two choices...
- Trust the experiences of ancient dead dudes
- Open your heart out to experience it yourself; try eating twinkies before you get started
riiiiight
Evidence or proof are FACTS not OPINIONS, and, therefore, are not subjective. Pick a fucking dictionary, please.
Your word proof pre-defines a need for evidence.
Evidence or proof is subjective ... which you may find surprising but i think your getting close to by nature of your question.
If you want actual evidence of ghosts.... then i suggest you spend your time making peanut butter sandwiches as this is not going to happen. In a Scientific sense.
... if you want evidence or proof of ghosts in a spiritual sense then you have two choices ...
- Trust the experiences of others
- Open your heart out to experience it yourself
The ball is in your court .... not ours.
Fixed without breaking a sweat!
Not particularly fundie, just a restatement of the need for faith.
This is nothing to do with "burden of proof", dazzla is merely saying that they believe God reveals himself in a personal, rather than physical, manner.
Fair enough, if this were true then, yes, we would have to either experience it ourselves or believe someone else's unsubstantiated report of the experience.
As a belief, this is unfalsifiable, but as a reason to believe it's a non-starter. Why should I believe your 'experience' over someone who claims to have been visited by a different god? Or had telepathic contact with aliens? Or any similar claim lacking objective evidence?
More to the point, why should your admittedly unsubstantiated and unconfirmable beliefs dictate what is or is not a scientific fact, a human right, a valid lifestyle or anything else?
... if you want evidence or proof of a God in a spiritual sense then you have two choices ...
- Trust the experiences of others
- Open your heart out to experience it yourself
It doesn't seem like you fundementalists will ever manage to prove the existence of your God with intellectual means or observations. The only thing you have left now, is simply to tell others to give up intelligence and tell them your faith is only a matter of blind acceptance and not reality.
"You just have to believe!"
"It's only a matter of faith!"
Man, what a huge letdown. I'm always searching for someone who could change my mind about the existence of God, but it appears my search is futile.
Evidence or proof is subjective
Tell it to the Judge. Reality gives predictable, testable results regardless of your point of view. Thats what makes forensic science so useful in a court of law.
@#699671: "Evidence and proof are always objective, otherwise they are simply opinion."
Not strictly true. I may have personally have seen a UFO try to abduct a Giant Squid only for a host of cephalopod angels to appear and drive them off. To me that is objective, observed evidence of the existence of Giant Squids, UFOs and very likely the existence of some sort of squid-friendly deity. To you it is an unsupported assertion.
That someone does not have evidence for something does not make it untrue, just unproven. Hence, as dazzla appears to be saying, if you want objective proof of God, you'll have to wait for a personal spiritual visit, because God's not into that physical evidence shtick (in their opinion).
As I've said before, that's not particularly convincing, but fair enough. Similarly, people who have not been "touched by his noodley appendage" will no doubt persist in treating the FSM as some sort of joke.
Too admit that there is no, and is unlike ever to be, material evidence for God strikes me as particularly un- fundie. But maybe that's just me.
If you want actual evidence of a creator.... then i suggest you spend your time making peanut butter sandwiches as this is not going to happen.
Why not? Why can't God show Himself on the Six O'clock News?
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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