The "Boggled" Award
And remember, Jesus died for your sins.
Altruism is more animal behavior. When a human "sacrifices" out of love it is not a sacrifice at all, so it is not altruism. True love is selfish and when it is selfish it is also loving. If a man jumps in front of a car for his child yes that is very selfish behavior not altruistic at all. Altruism is when you sacrifice yourself for basically no good at all. Theres no good in just sacrificing yourself.
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"Altruism is more animal behavior. When a human "sacrifices" out of love it is not a sacrifice at all, so it is not altruism. True love is selfish and when it is selfish it is also loving. If a man jumps in front of a car for his child yes that is very selfish behavior not altruistic at all."
You seem ... confused.
"Altruism is when you sacrifice yourself for basically no good at all."
Be altruistic. Kill yourself.
Is that what you're getting at?
"Theres no good in just sacrificing yourself."
Yup. Still confused.
He's not really wrong. He's not eloquent about it but this is actually a fairly common philosophical argument. Is it really altruistic to make a sacrifice if you get something out of it? You jump in front of a car to save your child and you are ensuring the continuation of your genetics. Plus, it's possible you couldn't have lived with yourself had your child died, so you are sacrificing your life partially as to not deal with the pain of not saving the kid.
If I give to charity, I will feel good about it and other people will think better of me. If I'm Bill Gates and have so much money that money ceases to even matter, giving enormous amounts of it to charity isn't altruism because I gain more happiness out of people saying good things about me than I do out of the increasingly diminished returns of my money. Even if I'm not rich and give to charity, it means that I value the happiness i gain from charitable giving more than the happiness I get from the money i give away.
As for the Jesus thing, dying for their sins and then getting to serve as the right hand of God kind of proves the point, doesn't it? If you told me I had to suffer for a few days and in return I'd become a living God, I'd sign up in a second and that doesn't make me altruistic. Not fundy, not an uncommon argument, the "there's no good in just sacrificing yourself" is actually common sense. Terrible quote.
That's the point of Altruism, you meatball! There no sense in a meaningless sacrifice! Stupid, word-salad, Medician, Randian, dingleberry!
"When a human "sacrifices" out of love it is not a sacrifice at all, so it is not altruism. True love is selfish and when it is selfish it is also loving. If a man jumps in front of a car for his child yes that is very selfish behavior not altruistic at all. Altruism is when you sacrifice yourself for basically no good at all. Theres no good in just sacrificing yourself."
Okay:
(*Loads clip with .50 cal. Remington Black Talon rounds; slides clip into Desert Eagle. Pulls back slide and chambers round. Hands gun to Brisingamen; leaves room, locks door *)
image
His argument is that it's not truly a sacrifice if you're giving it up for something you care about. If you love your child and sacrifice yourself for them, it's a selfish act because you value the child more than your own life and are acting on your moral instincts.
Selfishness, in this case, is not seen as an unethical thing.
It's an idea Ayn Rand espoused a while back when she talked about the ethics of greed; the idea was that sacrificing your own desires for something you considered more valuable (a mother sacrificing her desire for nice clothes so that her child can eat well) was not altruism but an ethical greed, where you espoused your highest value.
You can extend that to the sacrifice of Christ on the Cross, considering that Christ considered absorbing the weight of sin unto Himself a worthy trade for the salvation of those He loves (namely, mankind).
Not an inconsistent view here.
You've never actually read any entries in a dictionary, have you? The whole point of altruism is to sacrifice for a benefit which is not directly yours, you dink. It is not for "no good at all."
Amazing. Against altruism and proclaming true love to be selfish. You sh*tpiles just stun me.
So saving someone's life, your own child non the less, is selfish? Are you telling me if a father dies protecting his child, he'll go to hell for "selfishly" saving his own child?
So what, do you want the father to just let the child get run over, while thinking that he should save the child, but shouldn't because it's be selfish?
Edit: I just realize, aren't you fundies the one that bitch about humans not being animals, because only animals are selfish because they only think about their own survival? Yet even if the said animal gives it's own life so that another may survive, it's still considered a selfish act.
Please say this guy is a poe...
@#1343161
Not a poe, just a Randist (who may also be a Christian; you'd be amazed at how many people consider themselves both).
@#1343097
The reason this is not a valid philosophical argument is that Rand's definition of altruism is effectively meaningless, and does not match any other usage of altruism anywhere. From Merriam Webster: Definition of ALTRUISM
1
: unselfish regard for or devotion to the welfare of others
2
: behavior by an animal that is not beneficial to or may be harmful to itself but that benefits others of its species.
Neither of these matches the definition in this post, and none of the claims made in this post are relevant to either of those definitions.
'Theres no good in just sacrificing yourself'
So why did Jesus do it then? He didn't have to die at all, he's the fucking son of God. He could just have magically washed away everybody's sins without killing himself, he could have whole armies of angels to save the Jews from the Romans, but he chose to die for no reason at all.
@ #1343097
He's not really wrong. He's not eloquent about it but this is actually a fairly common philosophical argument.
Yes, and philosophically speaking, according to Aristotle, the tortoise will beat Achilles every time they race against each other.
Now, after this short pause for philosophical reflection, let's get back to reality.
Thank you, Brisingamen, for demonstrating that you are a sociopath. I'm sure all you on this board know exactly what I think of sociopaths... so I'll leave what I want to happen to Brisingamen to your imagination.
Mmmmmm.....word salad! Pass the Thousand Island dressing, please!
Perhaps we could take up a collection and buy this dip a dictionary?
Well, she does have a point in that the man's genome is continuing...
...Except that now that I think about it, she's also advocating not actually making self-sacrifice at all, when her own example has self-sacrifice to greater good (again, the genes survive, to breed later on).
So yeah, bitch. This isn't philosophy, this is an excuse.
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
1 Corinthians 13: 4-7.
Altruism is self-sacrificing for the good of others.
There, you were pwned by the definition of the word. How does that feel?
" Altruism is when you sacrifice yourself for basically no good at all."
No, that's christianism. Altruism is a survival trait that appeard through evolution.
"Altruism is more animal behavior."
So you're admitting that it's only Raptor Jesus who truly saves...?!
[/smartarse]
@I Read About The Afterlife
"So wait. Jesus doesn't love us? Or was he being selfish?"
Well, you know what Leviticus says about sh ell fish and all; After all, what did Jesus himself say about Jots & Tittles, and all that jazz...?!
[/smartarse II]
Methinks Brisingamen has unconsciously opened up more of a can of winkles than even she could ever imagine...!
Well, it is true. If you jump in front of a car to save your child it's because you'd be in more pain and anguish than if you didn't try to save them. Because, yeah, a parent wouldn't feel better just standing there watching their kid get splattered under a car even if they were safe. So they rather jump in front of it than live the nightmare of losing their child. A truly selfless sacrifice would be one where you got nothing out of it or it would only be detrimental to you. And nobody ever really does that...
This fundy is trying to say that jesus sacrifice is the only alturistic one ever. He was seen as yet another wannabee messiah that could bring the wrath of the romans. Jerusalem was lousy with mesiah wannabees many were killed. Jesus got caught and killed....nothing unique! Afterwards many stories were invented about him. A new god was born.
If bill gates gave two billion to charity, many anonymous people benifit.. it dosent mattter if he has reward or not. People benifit this is altruisim.
...Do they not teach the Good Samataritan story at all anymore? O.o
The whole point of the story was that the guy's priest, family and friends, those who would have had a reason to help the wounded man out, didn't. But the samaritan, who was from an enemy tribe no less, chose to help the wounded man out and took no credit for any of it.
The parable's -title- refers to the fact that the samaritan chose to be altruistic and help the wounded man out of the goodness of his heart.
TL;DR: Read your own book,fundies x.x
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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