Isn't that what heaven is supposedly like? Where everything is perfect and no one can come to harm?
Sure, but keep in mind this question: who is in Heaven?
Answer: the very few people who during their time on earth chose to believe in and obey God (this point is especially what almost no one does) and accept Jesus' payment of their sin debt. That all sounds very simple, but almost no one actually does it.
In other words, the population of Heaven is what we could call in human terms "a biased sample." Only the cream of the crop of the human population gets in, and they got in because they chose to live godly lives.
Now, compare that to the unbiased sample that comprises 99.999999999+% of the humans on the earth who are ungodly. They either proactively hate God, or are indifferent to God. In either case, they fail to obey God, and they commit acts of evil constantly. Those type of people never get into Heaven. And them not being allowed in is one of the main reasons why Heaven is able to be perfect.
"Science creates fictions to explain facts" - Gilman
47 comments
That's a hundredth of billionth that makes it into heaven. Meaning if everybody alive were to die right now, there would be only a 6,7% percent change of anybody getting in (Assuming 7 billion people on earth).
Ah, good ol' Navaros, never fails to amuse.
Isn't that what heaven is supposedly like?
First you have to establish that something like heaven actually exists, then we can talk about who the divine bouncer would let in.
"who is in Heaven?"
That's his name!
"Only the cream of the crop of the human population gets in, and they got in because they chose to live godly lives. "
False!
The Elect get Saved, but it is not because they are "cream of the crop". The Election is unconditional--it is not conditioned by anything in man.
And once the Elect get Saved, they live by the Word BECAUSE they are Saved. Salvation determines behavior, but behavior doesn't earn Salvation.
In the name of the Lord,
Jerry
@ Jerry
"Salvation determines behavior".
I hope you're not talking about the millions of people who claim that because they're Christian, they vote for the Republican party, which cuts food stamps, welfare, Medicare and Social Security, promotes the death penalty, unnecessary wars, hatred of gays and oppression of women.
"Science creates fictions to explain facts" - Gilman
That's not the deep, profound statement you think it is.
@ Jerry
So your god can choose genocidal maniacs and it is all dandy to you? And you still wonder why we find your ilk and your myths despicable?
How do you know you are saved anyway? Are you sure it is not a deception by Old Nick?
"What's in Purgatory!"
And Idontknow's in Hell.
"Science creates fictions to explain facts" - Gilman
What "facts"? The FACT that nobody's seen god and snapped a selfie with him, the FACT that nobody's seen heaven and returned to tell us about it, and the FACT that prayer has never been objectively shown to work? Science is our only true hope.
@Kanna
" FACT that nobody's seen heaven and returned to tell us about it,"
People have seen heaven and returned to tell us about it, unfortunately the descriptions are not much like fundie fiction.
"Answer: the very few people who during their time on earth chose to believe in and obey God and accept Jesus' payment of their sin debt."
Wait, isn't sin a failure to obey god? So one needs to obey god and accept Jesus to get forgiveness for not obeying god? That is a logical impossibility. If not sinning is a prerequisite for forgiveness, what is there to be forgiven for?
It's almost as though the whole thing is a poorly thought out system to get people to behave.
@Hitler-loving Jerry
"The Elect get Saved, but it is not because they are "cream of the crop". The Election is unconditional--it is not conditioned by anything in man.
And once the Elect get Saved, they live by the Word BECAUSE they are Saved. Salvation determines behavior, but behavior doesn't earn Salvation."
image
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Murderous tyrant, Murderous father & son ('Jesus is God', as so many fundies say). OT, NT (Revelation 19:15 & Matthew 10:34), no difference.
Subhuman deity, subhuman followers . Oh, and don't forget, Jer:
'It is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on any topic; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn... Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task ... they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertions'
Someone isn't familiar with Christian theology. The founder of Christianity, Paul, made it abundantly clear that every single human is evil, corrupt, and totally depraved, even the believers. Especially the believers. Believers are simply elected for forgiveness is all, and they are not selected for any reason that any human can discern, especially not for being any less depraved.
"Science [derives tentative, predictive and falsifiable explanatory models derived from]facts"
Fixed that for Mr. Gilman.
So it isn't in how you act but obeying god. Yeah considering what people did in name of obeying god, I'll pass.
And perhaps Jerry is right for once about salvation and behaviour. After all so many saved act holier than thou, judgmental, rude, spoiled, cruel, etc
"Now, compare that to the unbiased sample that comprises 99.999999999+% of the humans on the earth who are ungodly."
Oh, go and eat a bowl of angry dicks! Nobody's getting into heaven, cos its fucking made up. Next!
"The Elect get Saved, but it is not because they are "cream of the crop". The Election is unconditional--it is not conditioned by anything in man."
Gee, Jerryboy, sounds an awful lot like the random chance you claim doesn't exist.
Since Protestants believe that one is justified by faith alone and not works, I assume you're a Roman Catholic. Anyway, how does one obey God and live a godly life? Don't cut your hair? Refuse blood transfusions? Wash your dairy and meat dishes in separate dishwashers and don't change the TV channel on Saturdays? Visit Mecca and walk around the Kaaba seven times widdershins? Confess your sins to a priest and take communion? Don't listen to heavy metal music? Always put your right shoe on first and take it off last?
God seems to have told different people different things about what He wants. What makes you think you're the one He told the truth to?
@Dr Razark.
Wait, isn't sin a failure to obey god? So one needs to obey god and accept Jesus to get forgiveness for not obeying god? That is a logical impossibility. If not sinning is a prerequisite for forgiveness, what is there to be forgiven for?
They've thought of that one; it's Original Sin which supposedly enters every baby with their first breath. I know 'modern' Christians come up with stuff like an 'Age of Accountability' but there's none of that in the Bible.
You're right, nobody can get into heaven (including you), that's why Jesus died on the cross so everybody could. It's in the fucking Bible.
Now go back to fantasising about God's holy penis or whatever.
Unnamed:
"I hope you're not talking about the millions of people who claim that because they're Christian, they vote for the Republican party, which cuts food stamps, welfare, Medicare and Social Security, promotes the death penalty, unnecessary wars, hatred of gays and oppression of women. "
The GOP is not a Christian party. But there is nothing unBiblical about cutting the food stamps and welfare. Medicare should not even exist--satanism kills, and Jesus heals! Social Security is neither Biblical nor unBiblical, so there is nothing wrong with cutting it. Death penalty is not unBiblical. Wars should be fought for the cause of Christ, so we're against unBiblical wars. There is no hatred of sodomites or other deviants. But they do need to be removed from the society. There is also no oppression of women in Christianity. Women are allocated a particular role--that of their husbands' helpmeet. It is no oppression for them to be such and peform duties for which they were designed, namely housekeeping and rearing children.
In the name of the Lord,
Jerry
@Anon-e-Moose
Why, my friend, do you let that asswipe pimp bug you. We already know he won't engage us logically or respectfully. When I tried to pick his mind to answer actual good questions about the bible ( that any Christain should have been happy to answer,) he called me infantile, and refused to answer. He's just gonna come back when we engage him, cause we're giving him the attention he wants. So why don't we all just ignore this shitbag, and just put his quotes on the list. And to any other fundies, I wouldn't mind talking to you, just as long as you don't brag about marrying off your daughters at the age of 15.
@Merlin
Jer confirmed for his actual denomination:
http://www.fstdt.net/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=114631&Page=2
One that's completely made up: Jerry ianity! (as he equally makes up his own personal doctrine as he goes along) A mixture of Protestant, Catholic, David Koresh's Branch Davidians, mega-Calvinism, He Who Must Not Be Named , and any far-our fringe way beyond the 30,000+ denominations of Christianity you can think of; indeed, his is just one more to add to that huge number.
He subconsciously thinks he's God.
If Jerry's in the Elect, I'd rather be in the Damned.
...seriously, Dave Vanian and Captain Sensible are really cool folks.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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