Well, "Sister Ingrid", as Catholics we do NOT listen to the American Psychaitric Association on matters of faith and morals, we listen to the Magesterium. To enlighten you a bit about the "debunking", the APA was BULLIED into removing homosexuality from the list of mental disorders WITHOUT any scientific proof that it's NOT. Homosexuality is a psychiatric disorder that can be cured. There is PLENTY of proof for that.
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So if tolerance shouldn't be tolerated, should we tolerate intolerance? Because that'd be a display of tolerance, which shouldn't be tolerated...thus leading to the logical conclusion that we shouldn't tolerate tolerance OR intolerance, and thus should be atolerant, or to put it another way, apathetic, as the two are coterminous.
It thus logically follows from that title that we should in fact have no opinion about gays, the end result being that we leave them alone...
Homosexuality is not a mental disorder because it does not interfere with a persons quality of life.
What does interfere with a gay person's quality of life is bigoted hatemongers like yourself.
Well done, you have classified yourself as a psychiatric abnormality. I will now procede to cure the hell out of you with this cluebat.
How about curing your priests' penchant for pedophilia first?
Until you do, the catholic church has no moral authority to preach about anybody's behaviour.
And yet, Pope John Paul himself said that homosexuals were born that way because God was calling them to celibacy.
So you know more than your pope do you?
venomous bitch.
I hope she doesn't take the pill, or anything else unholy.
I also hope she does follow all the other man made idiocies the "magesterium" promulgates (a bit of a prideful name that..)
"Well, "Sister Ingrid", as Catholics we do NOT listen to the American Psychaitric Association on matters of faith and morals, we listen to the Magesterium."
We listen to dogma, not facts.
"To enlighten you a bit about the "debunking", the APA was BULLIED into removing homosexuality from the list of mental disorders"
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"WITHOUT any scientific proof that it's NOT."
Provide scientific proof that your faith is not a psychiatric disorder.
"Homosexuality is a psychiatric disorder that can be cured. There is PLENTY of proof for that."
Then cite it already.
Oh, yeah, PLENTY of proof that you just happen to have, uh, mislaid at the moment. But it's around there somewhere. Yeah. I'm sure you'll be able to present it when you manage to dig it out.
Right...
Well, KaraLynn, facts are facts, whether they come from the Pope or the American Psychiatric Association. Just desiring homosexuality to be a disorder does not make it such.
As for there being plenty of proof for your view, cite some. "The Bible says so" or "my priest said so," are not proofs. Those with proofs on their side are the mental health scientists, that is, members of the American Psychiatric Association.
"Homosexuality is a psychiatric disorder that can be cured. There is PLENTY of proof for that. "
Are you talking about those two ex-gays who started Exodus, and then quit to get married to each other? Is that the proof you're talking about?
Actually, as Catholics I think you listen to the Magisterium .
If you know so little about it that you can't even spell its name correctly why should I be interested in your view about it are?
I thought the catholic stance was that psychiatric disorders also don't exist. Something about demon posession?
That's mostly a Protestant fundie thing. In some respects Roman Catholics are actually fairly reality-based.
Of course, sometimes it's more like "surreality-based" -- as with the church attitude towards homosexuality (which KaraLynn, of course, gets wrong). The current position, IIRC, is that "being gay isn't something that can be controlled -- but it's a sign that God wants you to be celibate for your whole life, so gay sex is still a mortal sin (like the big ones -- murder, rape, masturbation, missing church on a Sunday, etc.)."
Well, "Sister Ingrid", as Catholics we do NOT listen to the American Psychaitric Association on matters of faith and morals, we listen to the Magesterium.
To enlighten you a bit about the "debunking", the APA was BULLIED into removing homosexuality from the list of mental disorders WITHOUT any scientific proof that it's NOT.
Homosexuality is a psychiatric disorder that can be cured. There is PLENTY of proof for that.
So, they have been bullied so much that there is not a single scientific community that supports that thesis. So, where does that "evidence" come from?, and who bullied them so much that they haven't changed their mind for the last 30 years?. And talking about the fact that Catholics never listen to the APA in terms of morals and faith, what about exorcism?. The Vatican has a word with you.
I'll believe homosexuality is a psychiatric disorder the day you believe in reality.
Neither is likely to happen, but there ya' go.
If it's a question of mental disorders who's the better authority, the American Psychiatric Association or the Catholic Magisterium? APA or the Church? The Church, or the APA? Yep, that's a tough one.
"the APA was BULLIED into removing homosexuality from the list of mental disorders"
Oh yes, it's the Big Gay Bullies again, always lobbying scientists into changing reality.
"WITHOUT any scientific proof that it's NOT."
How do you scientifically prove something isn't something? I don't have any scientific proof that my heart is not being run by a little hamster on a wheel, but that doesn't mean it's so.
"Homosexuality is a psychiatric disorder that can be cured. There is PLENTY of proof for that."
You mean the pseudo-psychologist Richard Cohen who was discredited by the APA for his ridiculous, ineffective methods? Oh, I'm sorry, we don't believe in the APA. Oh. Then maybe you'd rather listen to his own organization.
the APA was BULLIED into removing homosexuality from the list of mental disorders WITHOUT any scientific proof that it's NOT.
They couldn't prove a negative, so they backed down. Good people.
What's odd about this is, the American College of Orgonomy pretty much says the same thing.
Catholics and Reichians make strange bedfellows....
You want us to tolerate your intolerance because tolerance cannot be borne. Good plan there!
And actually, you seem quite hysterical about this. Bend over and we'll cut your bits out - that should fix it right? Nothing like the old school.
as Catholics we do NOT listen to the American Psychaitric Association on matters of faith and morals
Then even if the APA for some reason took absolute leave of their senses and DID reclassify homosexuality as a mental disorder, you still wouldn't listen to them , you stupid whore.
You are good little drone, aren't you, yesyouare, oooboobooboo, yousyouARE.
I don't think it's a psychiatric disorder since it doesn't really keep anybody from functioning in society.
Except when you have to go and make fun of them. Then there's a problem, but that's really your fault, now, isn't it?
The Magesterium.. a group of men, who are so repressed, and power hungry, they feed you what ever information they make up or so choose, and you lap it up, and forget that you are supposedly able to think. The APA was not bullied. If anything it stopped being bullied by religious organisations who demanded that it homosexuality be left as an illness, to keep 'cure centers' open, and payable by medical insurance.
You won't adhere to the APA, but you see fit to diagnose something as a psychiatric illness? Megalomania much?
there's no proof and it's absolutely impossible and ridiculous to assume that 1%-5% of the population that is gay somehow 'bullied' the APA into anything! I don't know about the specific scientific proof, but the fact that it's immutable and benign might have swayed them a bit, at least away from electrotherapy.
"Well you say you've got the cure,
And you're failing
Various sexual preferences have been classified in the DSM as paraphilias or disorders... like dressing in women's clothes, and many other things that are just a little kinky. There are also things in there that are plainly wrong (like pedophilia).
It's easy to draw a distinction, really, much easier than babbling on about vague references and ambiguous words in the Bible. If it is consensual, between people of the same age group or just yourself, and is unlikely to hurt anybody, then it's sexuality. If it's nonconsensual (pedophilia, necrophilia) or likely to hurt someone (I'm not talking about bdsm at all btw) then it is probably a disorder. From a psychologist's pov, it's also a disorder if it is causing the person distress, such as a cross-dresser who feels ashamed of it and wants to stop, or whatever.
Gosh. That was hard. The APA isn't often bullied into things. If they were, they'd likely have put being gay back in there because of fuck-ups like you.
Bulimics ought to check out the whole thread - it's likely to induce vomiting. It's on a Catholic news site story about a gay 15 year old murdered in cold blood by a classmate right in the school. Lots of barely veiled blaming of the victim, along the lines of "This is partially the fault of homosexual activists for encouraging the gay boy's flamboyant behavior which brought the trouble on him." And sleazy false equivalences along the lines of, "What sort of society do we live in that two young boys could come to such terrible points?" (To recap: the two terrible things being compared are "gunning down a classmate" and "wearing earrings and makeup to school.")
*sigh*
I don't think anyone really knows how sexuality is determined. But for the love of fsm, IT IS NOT A FUCKING MENTAL DISORDER!!!
If they want to stay gay, fine. If they want to get hormone therapy, that's fine too. Don't go forcing people to change their sexuality just because your speshul buk said so.
Ugh. These people will NEVER understand the way logic works. A claim is made and it must be proven before it is assumed to be correct. Claims are NOT assumed to be correct until disproven.
This prevents assertions about unicorns and teapots from being given any credence.
1.
"Wait I thought your stance was that all psychiatric disorders are DEMONZ!!!"
Talk about intolerance, talk about strawmen! Many of the commentors don't seem able to differentiate between Catholicism and Protestant fundamentalism. The Church is fully accepting of modern psychology.
2. Homosexuality is a psychoneurosis just like any similiar characteristic (my husband's foot fetishim for instance--but I certainly wouldn't want him cured of that!). There is absolutely no scientific evidence that suggests genetics plays any role in the formation of homsoexuality--any paper you've heard referenced in the popular press that says otherwise would turn out to be deeply flawed science. But don't believe me, and for God's sake don't believe newspaper reporters, Dear Abby, or gay rights ideologues; find out the facts for yourself. The disorder in homosexuality, by the way, is not desire to have sex with members of the the same sex--as Freud pointed out that is perfectly normal and quite widespread (most people have had some sort of homosexual encounter and everyone feels homoerotic desire occasionally--in fact, the repression of such desire is also psychoneurotic in character)--but the inability to feel desire for the opposite sex. That is something that arises from repression like any other psychoneurosis. It is not, however, as though having a psychoneurosis is a license to discriminate against anyone, or else we'd all be in trouble!
There is plenty of evidence in scientific journals, that have been circulating for ages. That you don't know them, Helena, DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY DON'T EXIST. If you think that it's all an invention of the newspapers, go ahead, but we have our sources(which are, by the way, quoted in those articles), unlike you, who are quoting your daily newsletter.
To be honest i wouldnt put this too high on a list of quotes...hell they complained for years when it was argued that slaves wanted to be free...its true it started a whole series of research due to his "out there" theories. Note this is a random memory that stuck in my head due to african american heritage...dont ask me who it was as i was mostly high as balls but look it up it should be easily available
But then again this isnt the 1800's and karalynn is full of fail...and methinks protesting too much
the APA was BULLIED into removing homosexuality from the list of mental disorders WITHOUT any scientific proof that it's NOT
This bit of bullshit has been around on the right for some time and it's still a lie.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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