abidinginvine #fundie

abidinginvine #fundie rr-bb.com

You see, the problem isn't just with "worldly" women. I attended a special program for adult students at a conservative Christian college. I needed a few more electives, so thought a course in Popular Culture would be fun. My final presentation was on fashion, with an emphasis on overly-provocative clothing (including for small children - there's actually a "look" called "prostitot") and the WOMEN (all claiming to be "Christian", mind you) had a fit! Once again I heard the cry of, "We have the RIGHT to wear anything we want!" I tried to explain the effect on men, who are visual creatures, and told them they were causing these men to sin, but they didn't want to listen; I made several enemies that day! Ironically, after the class almost all of the MEN came up to me and thanked me, saying it was nice to see someone understands!

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old comment by ixolite

The rest of the post is even sicker:

We had the whole "Women's Lib" movement, with women wanting to be taken seriously and having equal opportunities with men. Well, women are MORE sexual objects than ever, but willingly so! The only difference is that now they claim the "right" to wear anything they want, and complain the moment a man stares at them.

I was doing counseling with victims of sexual assault at a secular agency. Yes, I understand that what a woman wears has nothing to do with "traitional" rape (which is a matter of control and/or anger, not sex), but after talking to some of these women, I got to wondering what ever happened to common sense. Young women would go out with guys wearing clothing that left little or nothing to the imagination, have quite a few drinks, go back to the guy's place....then call us to complain that they'd been "assaulted!" Hello? You dress like a streetwalker, both of you get drunk....what did you THINK he was asking you to his apartment for - a Bible study?

I suggested to the head of the organization that we start a City-wide campaign, along the lines of, "If you want to be treated like a lady, try dressing like one." There IS a campaign with billboards and signs on the sides of buses about waiting until marriage before having sex (from a different agency); I wanted to take it a step further. Guess what? Virtually ALL the (female) counselors had a fit when I suggested such a thing; they claimed they had a "right" to wear anything they want! I tried the tact of, "Doesn't it bother you to have your husbands looking at all these half-naked girls?", to which I was told, "If my husband can't control himself, that's HIS problem!"

I really couldn't continue on there - they were "helping" girls after the fact, but doing nothing to prevent them being assaulted in the first place - it was like pulling out a band-aid after telling someone it was OK to stick her hand in a chainsaw. (And let me reiterate, because I always get a lot of flak on this - what a woman wears has NOTHING to do with traditional rape; I'm talking about date rape, so-called sexual assault, and driving a man - when both parties are often drunk and/or on drugs - into a frenzy, then primly saying, "No means no!") Because these women have no common sense, men's lives are litterally being destroyed with criminal records that will follow them the rest of their days.

old comment by Princess Rot

Of course, a moral and virtuous man such as yourself *coughcough* should not have to have his delicate mental balance assaulted by a good-looking woman, for he may become a violent animal. The only solution is to remove all representation of female sexuality from all public places. After all, you are just a man and are only acting on your convenient "natural programming". You shouldn't have to learn to respect women as human! They should change for you! [/sarcasm off]

This all ties into the absurd notion that a woman can be "dirtied" by another man - ergo the obsession with female virginity. Its like cooties via penis. It smacks just a little too much of male self-loathing; as if indirect contact with a place where another man's penis has been will make you gay by proxy. Hence all the rampant heterosexuality: "I am manly and will rape you if you don't wear a sack! I need to prove my manliness! Rawwr!" or something to that respect. Its patriarchy in all its fearful ridiculousness.

Edit: Sweet Jeebus ixolite! This... this... thing was allowed to counsel rape victims? For the love of dog, WHY? He sees women as 'less-than' and that its okay to hurt them if they dare to step outside the boundaries of what HE thinks is okay for them to wear/do.

We had the whole "Women's Lib" movement, with women wanting to be taken seriously and having equal opportunities with men. Well, women are MORE sexual objects than ever, but willingly so!

"Women's Lib" - what year is it, 1973? How the hell does women wanting to be recognised as full and competant human beings equate with being a sexual object? You do know who objectifies women, don't you? Here's a clue, its not other women. What do you mean by "willingly so"? Was that a Freudian slip? Do you prefer unwilling sexual partners?

You dress like a streetwalker, both of you get drunk....what did you THINK he was asking you to his apartment for - a Bible study?

You bad woman, having a sexuality and a social life. You should have seen that rape coming. You didn't? Oh, you deserve it anyway, you slut. (Nice on the victim-blaming there, honcho.)

I suggested to the head of the organization that we start a City-wide campaign, along the lines of, "If you want to be treated like a lady, try dressing like one."

The rest is just one long whine. What about teh menz? Think of us and our poorly-controlled libidos. Uh-huh. Because women were never raped before feminism, in the "good old days" of floor-length gowns and innumerable petticoats. And if being treated like "a lady" means being treated as something between a child and a dog, then I'll happily take feminism and continue to fight the good fight. This shit has got to go.

old comment by Antichrist

I'm currently taking a course where most of the men in the class are Criminology majors. We were talking about one of their courses which focused on violence against women. The only thing they said about that class is that they felt uncomfortable because they felt like the enemy. They also said the best thing to do in that class was to shut up and look straight at the instructor. Not once did they say that it was the womans fault, not once did they say women deserved it. Their feelings came from 16 weeks of three hours a week of listening to the horrors that men perform on women. One man mentioned he considered wearing a t-shirt that said "I am not like that". But none of them said they thought women should cover up.

Then again, I go to a secular college, so I guess the men there are, you know, sane. Even though they were all around their 20's so would be full of the raging hormones you say men can't control.

old comment by Allegory for Jesus

What the hell is wrong with these people! How can they seriously blame their own lusts on what women are wearing? You do not have to stare at this supposedly revealing clothing, you do not have to spend your time focusing on what women are wearing, and how you want to nail them. Those things are all you, and would probably occur regardless of what they happened to be wearing. You just want an excuse. You want to blame the objects of your uncontrolled passions, desires, and perverse fantasies for being immodest, and thus forcing you to delve into such depths. Other people are not at fault for what you think about them, even if, obviously, they did influence it.

old comment by John

So women shouldn't wear provocative clothing because it makes men have dirty thoughts. Should we lock away our children so we don't cause pedophiles to "sin"? Should we forbid outdoor restaurants because it might make some passing hungry person's mouth water? Should nobody should drive a Bentley because it might make poor people jealous? Maybe we should all shave our heads so we don't make bald people feel bad. What a stupid argument.

BTW, there's no correlation between rape and what the woman was wearing at the time. There are more rapes per capita in Canada, where they're bundled up most of the year than in Greece where the women are half naked most of the time.

old comment by DarkWitch85

Excuse me, I believe you hatred of women is showing.

DIAF, I was raped at the tender age of 15, and I was in no way at fault. I had run away from home (abusive parents), and was drugged and raped by the man who said he could help me find a safe place to stay. I was wearing cast off guys jeans, a baggy shirt, and had short spiky hair (unwashed at the time since I was basically homeless)... In no way was I dressing seductively, or to draw attention to myself, so why was I raped? Hmm?

I was told after the fact, by people like you, that I was being punished by god for being sinful, and that god wanted me to be broken to be used for his glory. I spiraled into depression and almost killed myself from the shame of being raped. Then I realized it wasn't my fault, through counseling, and seeing that any god who was that vile should be avoided at all costs, as well as his rabid followers.

Even my own mother blamed me, in the same reasoning, and said "if only you had not run away, then you wouldn't have put yourself in that situation, now god must be punishing you for not listening to me and your father." (she had told me he was "bad news" while beating me for dating or being possessed by satan and being "defiant". she tried to kill me, and I figured I was safer on the streets then with her.)

So, in closing, it is not who the girl/woman is when she is raped, and I can hear your justification that rape is god's wrath on us sluts, if only we were more pure... so don't deny it, it is what you hammer into our brains every time you get the chance. Rape is about control and power over another person, not sex. how many times must we beat it into you? I personally would never wish rape on someone, no matter how disgusting they might be, but I hope karma has a way of biting you on your ass.

I pray you learn compassion if it is your daughter or wife who is raped and possibly impregnated, hopefully you won't drive them to kill themselves by blaming them... Also, stay far away from me, if I ever meet you, I won't be this nice.

May the Dark Goddess have revenge for those women you blamed and tortured with your hate.

old comment by Mr Smith

I tried to explain the effect on men, who are visual creatures, and told them they were causing these men to sin, but they didn't want to listen;
On behalf of all men everywhere, I'd just like to remind you that the sight of a bare shoulder or a scantily clad ankle doesn't instantly turn men everywhere into a slavering rapist.

Once again I heard the cry of, "We have the RIGHT to wear anything we want!"

I don't know where you live, but most people are allowed to wear what ever they choose as long as it covers their genitals. I'm sure most women wouldn't want you dressing them every day either.

I made several enemies that day!
Thats the only bit of your story I believe.

abidinginvine #fundie rr-bb.com

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